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File: 1603929589769.png (553.82 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, aaaa.png) ImgOps Google

So I work many jobs (in the United States), but one of them  is related to construction and maintenance of homes and businesses.  I don't want to give details, but it's unusually active, especially for winter.

The reason this is on my mind is because I expected recession, to some degree, and at least short term relaxed demand.  Buying houses requires either ready money or the ability to convince a lender that money is coming in the future.  My question: with so many unemployed and reports of businesses closing for good, lost income, are we entering a boom time?  And if so, how does that work?



The housing market is particularly explosive right now because of the riots, lockdowns, and laws completely destroying states like New York, causing people to move out of the state to safer and more lenient states.

But for the economy as a whole, it's already booming back from covid lock downs, and will continue to do so if Trump wins, but economists are saying the value of the dollar is ready to plummet if Biden wins because of his economic policies.

So the housing market is going to be pretty good for some time, but the economy as a whole depends on the election.


File: 1602774980083.png (40.62 KB, 360x168, 15:7, 6bc26e6.png) ImgOps Google

Was thinking about the sex education thread, and in the back of my mind there's the amy coney barrett hearing. Plus any time lgbt people gain rights and equality. There's this thing that is often used in opposition to progress or used to justify regressive policy.

Freedom of Religion

But what should be permissible under freedom of religion that would not be permissible otherwise?

Should a private company be able to deny legally mandated Healthcare benefits to its employees?

Should a private company be allowed to discriminate against a protected class?

Should parents be allowed to exclude their child from parts of education?

Should a government employee be allowed to not perform critical functions of their job?

Should a tax exempt church be able promote and push on its members a political ideology? Or use the church's money to donate to political causes?
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To me freedom of religion implies that you can follow and practice any religion freely, but you shoud still abide by the laws society put in place. Religion does not make you exempt from the law.
On the flipside, separation of Church and State should imply that laws shouldn't be made to single out and attack a religion.

> Should a private company be able to deny legally mandated Healthcare benefits to its employees?
No. If it's set in the laws that certain rights are given to your employees, religion doesn't make you exempt from this. If someone calls inspection, they have every right to penalize you.

> Should a private company be allowed to discriminate against a protected class?
I suppose it depends what the laws say. I think it should be morally rerehensible, but not really a legal matter what people you deny service to.

> Should parents be allowed to exclude their child from parts of education?
Around here, kids are by law forced to take schooling until they're 18. And even in private schooling and homeschooling, there's an education plan that sets requirements on what knowledge needs to be acquired.
So it is against the law to deny your kids set education standards.

> Should a government employee be allowed to not perform critical functions of their job?
Religion should not be a reason to not perform your duties as an employee. But this is up to the employer, I suppose.
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>Can my church be tax exempt too?

I believe so, if you do the right paperwork.

>Or should we take tax exemption status from religious organizations?

As they seem to be grouped with other non-profits, I don't have a strong opinion, I don't think.


The boundary, in my experience, is best outlined by saying this: You can't force someone to do something they believe to be morally wrong, with a few exceptions like repayment of debts, punishment for crimes, fair compensation in a trade, and the fulfilling of contractual obligations.

Using that basic outline, here are my answers:

>Should a private company be able to deny legally mandated Healthcare benefits to its employees?
No. That falls under fair compensation in a trade.

>Should a private company be allowed to discriminate against a protected class?
Yes. No classes should be protected, and businesses should have the right to choose who they do business with. If they wish to miss out on profits because of bigotry, that's entirely on them.

>Should parents be allowed to exclude their child from parts of education?
Depends. Parents should have almost total control over what their child learn in education, however, preventing their children from getting an education altogether could and probably should be considered child abuse to some degree.

>Should a government employee be allowed to not perform critical functions of their job?
Yes, absolutely. Every individual should be allowed to make their own moral judgements about what parts of their job they will do. If the employer wants to fire or replace an individual that will not do that part of their job, then that is also valid.
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File: 1603414420002.png (722.77 KB, 962x541, 962:541, debate-2020-10-22.png) ImgOps Google

When: 9:00PM - 10:30PM Eastern Time, 6:00PM - 7:30PM Pacific Time

Topics: Fighting COVID-19, American Families, Race in America, Climate Change, National Security, Leadership

C-SPAN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPiofmZGb8o
ABC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3jOBpIjS8
CBS https://www.cbsnews.com/live/
Fox News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY2AXIx-GU4
NBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCA1A5GqCdQ
PBS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRIboFJOiY
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A nation at least has obligation to its citizens.
I don't think the same ought to apply to those of other nations. At least as far as things like open boarders go.

Half-hearted responses get half hearted results.
If we're going to save the world, we ought to simply invade their countries and fix them ourselves.

>I'd like to imagine that nothing is keeping these people from simply not participating if they think it's a bad situation.  The same would go for crossing our borders.
I'd say you underestimate the human inclination to assuming the grass is greener on the other side.
Especially when basically everyone tells you it's the land of opportunity, where anyone can make it big. I'm personally skeptical such presumptions are true, living here.

>Every participant in the free market uplifts the free market.  
I am not so convinced. Any market when flooded with a good will end up inevitably losing value on that good.
Turning the job market from where the seller has the greater power, to where the buyer has the greater power, just means lower pay and worse conditions for those of us who are not so fortunate as to sit on the higher racks.

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Yeah, those are fair criticisms, I don't really have any rebuttal for most of those.

>I am not so convinced. Any market when flooded with a good will end up inevitably losing value on that good.

To some extent that one is still good, though.  Like in theory the ideal is that all goods have no value.  We want to reach that point of post-scarcity.  This, of course, would require further adjustments to how our society functions, but in the long term and with proper support, floods of goods is good.


I'm not so sure. There's use in value. I can't imagine the world where nothing is valued. One where basic survival needs are unvalued, sure, but everything?
How a society like that would even function on the basic level without turning to some serious eccentricity I cannot fathom.

But, in any case; people are at least one thing we shouldn't have as without value.


What would be the ideal drug policy in your America? If you're not American, then what would you prefer the U.S. change things do?
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Going off of a bit of what you said, I'd like to rant a little bit (not that you're talking this position, but I see this position advocated a lot online):

I hear talk from a lot of ultra-libertarians in terms of ending the drug war. That it also means ending the welfare state. I can't see it.

I just want to debunk that view right now... the Ayn Rand fantasy of a minimalist state in which 25% of the population lies dying in the gutter due entirely because of their bad luck of being born to the wrong parents while right next door another 25% of the population live in marble column covered mansions with gold plated toilets, the middle 50% being in Brazilian-style favelas or such merely eking out a living and scrimping to survive... it just can't work. Putting morality aside, it's simply impractical. Civilization doesn't achieve stability that way.

A world without charity, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, et cetera would be a world in which different social groups are so alienated from each other that the culture achieves total dehumanization. Eventually, the 75% majority would up and murder the ruling class. They'd have zero reason not to. They're on the edge. Nothing to lose.

Honestly, the fact that "voluntary slavery" is considered a legitimate topic in such ultra-libertarian circles is a nice sign that they're full of a lot of hardcore nonsense. For real.

You're your brother's keeper. You can't fuck up your life entirely without it getting un-fucked. You're a part of organized civilization, and you matter.

To the central point, well, people should ideally just not be left behind. They'd be able to fuck up again and again. And they'd be picked up each time. "We hang together, or we hang separately" as the saying goes.


I wouldn't advocate for a complete riddance of welfare. But I would want to see welfare go to people who put effort in standing on their own.
People who give into their vices, knowing full well that it makes them unable to function in society should be dealing with the consequences.

People who get laid off and are out of work and can't get a job for some time, or people who due to medical reasons outside of their own choosing are unable to perform still should get plenty of support. Same for people who actually can contribute, but are paid less than what a good lifestyle would require.


What do you think about the Martin Luther King Jr. idea of everybody receiving a guaranteed minimum income every month just for being a law-abiding citizen?


File: 1602984725734.jpg (16.86 KB, 267x160, 267:160, Rock-And-Roll-Hall-of-Fame.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

As Wikipedia states, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (RRHOF) is a museum and hall of fame located in downtown Cleveland, Ohio, United States, on the shore of Lake Erie. The museum documents the history of rock music and the artists, producers, engineers, and other notable figures who have influenced its development. It's a massive tourist destination that also has some significant cultural influence nationwide, being referenced by the news media many times over the past multiple decades.

The most recent batch of inductees to the RRHOF were: Depeche Mode, the Doobie Brothers, Whitney Houston, Nine Inch Nails, the Notorious B.I.G., and T.Rex.

Story: https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2020/10/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-reveals-2021-nomination-plans.html

>What do you fellows think about the RRHOF in general?

>What do you think of the latest inductees... is it frustrating that non-rock acts are included, or do you agree with the decision?


I can't say any such hall of fame is very important to me. Induction into one such hall of fame can often be a popularity contest and lots of times great people don't make it in, or are passed on for way too long.

I don't really care about the purity of the RRHOF, but it does seem really weird to include acts that are not rock and roll! Did they issue a statement on the decision?


It's indeed weird to include acts with nothing whatsoever to do with rock n' roll. I agree totally. I love, say, Whitney Houston in particular. Yet she's known for a mixture of pop music with classic soul stylings. Nothing "rocking" per se.

In terms of statements, the institution recently-ish released this:

> https://www.rockhall.com/class-2020-inductees#:~:text=Rock%20%26%20Roll%20Hall%20of%20Fame%20Induction%20Ceremony%202020&text=The%20special%20presentation%20will%20honor,Jon%20Landau%20and%20Irving%20Azoff.

It's not that helpful in my opinion, though.


File: 1602650854505.png (311.38 KB, 635x358, 635:358, 1499554752527.png) ImgOps Google

What much sex ed should be taught to children in school and at what ages / grade levels?
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Do you have a pointer to more information about this?  I vaguely remember encountering an argument that seemed plausible that white males are in fact somewhat more likely than black males to go on high-body-count murder sprees (e.g., school shootings).  


I think you're missing the point. Even if there is a higher likelihood of that, it's going to be for cultural reasons, not because of their race. That's the point.




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I read somedays ago an article written for a Canadian/Venezuelan Sir, it was about society in general.

However, he also made some references to US society and the relation of its people with foreigners. Basically, wrote the most of the US/Canadian nationals dislike much when some outsider speaks English with a thick accent/ not in the proper way, said it is the opposite effect when a native of English tries to talk Spanish which most people here believe that thick English accent sounds nice.

He went on making clear that this is little detail is more than enough to be rejected from a job oppotunity, even though one may have perfectly capacited, ect.

So, is this true?
I had never considered it to be a problem, but if it is I need to know to get started and smooth my accent a bit (?)

>Image not related.
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It seems rather unfortunate but clear-cut that anybody with an accent that makes their words hard to understand will have trouble, particularly when they encounter short-tempered individuals assuming the worst in conversations. I agree. Not sure what advice to give, alas.


well, I better start working on my accent then.


In my profession accents are not a major barrier because most communication occurs in documents, or person-to-person communication is discouraged.  It probably depends on what you're doing.


File: 1602111277839.jpg (328.23 KB, 1486x991, 1486:991, mike-pence-and-kamala-harr….jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

This thread is for political discussion of tonight's vice-presidential debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_G0ia3JOVs (C-SPAN)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4WJhh-XgQ0 (PBS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXE6I3gWiMc (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXFCIvsOzkg (ABC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Y0se-y3D4 (NBC)                                                                                                                         
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The Trump administration from stem to stern is based on lies and manipulation. There's little reason to trust just about anything that comes out of it. From anybody.

Again, I'll take a vaccine when Trump's OWN FAMILY gets GODDAMN IMPALED WITH NEEDLES and we see it for our own eyes. Then, well, there will be some credibility. Some skin in the game, literally.


I'd question the extremity of what you say, but I agree with the basic concept involved.
Unless I see a fair bit of solid evidence it's safe, I don't think I'd get a vaccine. Especially since I'm, frankly, not in the risk bracket.


If anything, I'd say that I'm not being extreme enough, but... yeah, evidence is the key.

 No.6953[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

So a while ago, I was told by someone on this board that the group known as the "Proud Boys" are "not a white supremacy group". But since the group has come up in the public discourse after being mentioned at the presidential debates on September 29th, I thought it would be important to share a video I found outlining the group and their beliefs.

The Proud Boys are a far-right, neo-fascist organization. The group is openly misogynistic, transphobic, Islamophobic and promotes, glorifies and engages in political violence. While the group officially claims to reject racism and white supremacy, several members are or have been been affiliated with white supremacists groups, including the KKK and they have been described by US intelligence organisations as "a dangerous white supremacist group". The group's founder Gavin McInnes has openly expressed white supremacist views and former member of the group Jason Kessler was one of the organizers of the white supremacist and Neo-Nazi "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, VA. More about their beliefs versus their claims, and the people associated with the group are outlined in the video.

While the video covers some of the group's more laughable and ridiculous beliefs (like their idea that one should not ejaculate unless within one yard of a woman), we should resist the urge to dismiss the group as harmless or farcical. There is historical precedent for groups like this growing into something far more dangerous, like the Brownshirts of  1920s and 30s Germany. It is a mistake to not recognize the very real danger that groups like this pose.
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Are rap songs that refer to black people with the "n"-word racist?


If somebody isn't being deliberately obtuse, then it would be easy for them to understand that Person A feeling hatred upon Person B and then venting out a slur in order to try and harm Person B is a negative context. A context in which it's blindly obvious that racism is taking place. Of course.


Negative does not inherently mean racist.


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United States of America, Presidential Authority Donal Trump is reported by several sources to have COVID.  This disease is usually harmless, but as in all probabilistic things, we must hope for the best.
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Way belated, but: I typed "conservative" while meaning a different label, sorry about that. Would be genuinely like libel to act as if regular conservative fellows are somehow rooting for individuals' deaths.

(Or maybe it's technically not libel since the internet is different than print media, eh, whatever.)


>Giving a range of 5 to 10 million per life seems a bit misleading as best estimates tend to give it as 10 million (or 9 million) or so...
Ah, sorry, I didn't spend a lot of time digging into this and just used my memory and a few quick searches to find a rough range.  I had the $5 million figure in memory (maybe it's outdated now from when I'm remembering it from) and also found it in some sources (e.g., https://www.livescience.com/15855-dollar-human-life.html), so I included it as a lower-end.


I understand, just wanted to expand on the point.

 No.7043[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

File: 1602444152352.jpg (27.83 KB, 650x650, 1:1, biden-vam0sp8bpyw41.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

Why won't Joe Biden disavow court packing?  The risk of court packing is the one thing that keeps me from supporting Biden.  If he and Kamala Harris would credibly promise to veto any court-packing legislation, he'd have my vote.  
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Meh. They are the only source of decently drawn maws.


File: 1602641580659.jpg (56.03 KB, 800x676, 200:169, 1560023973851.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>r.e. your sheep vore post
Um, that's a "vore fetish" image?  Just looks like a cute, silly Wooloo image to me.  

> Vore is a bad fetish and you should feel bad.
Should a baker be allowed to refuse to bake a cake decorated with a "vore fetish" image?


>Should a baker be allowed to refuse to bake a cake decorated with a "vore fetish" image?
Yes, provided he pays the appropriate "weird fetish" premium.

ft. a furry


File: 1601943133240.png (199.12 KB, 880x1024, 55:64, largea.png) ImgOps Google

I have figured out that states are the highest moral authority for humans, and loving humans means respecting state power.  I can not find any other reason to respect any given state power, really.

"the following extreme positions are considered "off-limits" regardless of how they are put forward...: genocide or ethnic cleansing of any kind."

Can it be asserted that human states, perhaps you can say 'legitimate human states' even, have never authorized genocide or ethnic cleansing, or called for violence -- and somehow cannot in the future?  I can think of ways you might word that.  So if yes, I guess all is well.  If not, I can seldom fail to follow things to their logical consequences, and my respectful attitude may be inappropriate here.  I have a respectful attitude because it doesn't feel right to me to try to break the governments the humans put so much effort into, unless they threaten me directly.  Yes, I suppose authorizing myself self-defense is potentially destructive of state institutions -- potentially makes me an anarchist and bad pony, but I am special, and I don't intend do go looking for reasons to be destructive and hurtful.  Self-defense of my kind will have to be OK, I guess.  It's the best respect I can manage.  But anyway, I seem to always be working, but I can make my own pony site if that's better.  I did create a play one once.
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I'd also note Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy where he credits the incredible size of Republic Rome's military to the republican form of government. In the feudal governments of his era the state belonged to the Monarch and his vassals, and in time of crisis they were the only ones who were invested and who could be expected to stake their lives. In a more republican government, he contrasts, there is a stronger feeling of ownership of the nation in the masses. Peasants would willingly and fiercely take up arms because they felt on some level that the government belonged to them.

I'm certainly interested! But sadly I'm not familiar with the book. You'd have to fill me in.


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I have to think back.  In The Prince there was discussion of whether it was best for a prince to align with common folk or nobles, either having pluses and minuses.  I never read Discourses on Livy.

>I'm certainly interested! You'd have to fill me in.

OK, cool.  I only gave the book a first-read.  In a certain sense the argument is something most would consider common sense, but it also informs what kinds of fears are legitimate for loosing democracy.  My main issues with liberal democracy are that the theory leaves most important things contested -- what exactly are your natural rights?  exactly what harms are states to protect against?  etc. -- but that openness might be a feature, since citizens are allowed to vote in the details.  My weekend's over and next week is suppose to be bad at work, so I probably won't make the thread until next weekend.  Perhaps I'll get a bit into the book by then.


I believe the reasoning there was that the nobles wish to oppress, while commoners simply wish to not be oppressed making them far easier to please.

That's an interesting idea to discuss. I think most people would simply come up with a list cherry picked from preexisting ideas and grievances. I'd have to think more about a plausible source for a more rigorous model beyond consensus.


File: 1602429734520.jpg (57.46 KB, 714x675, 238:225, image0(1).jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

Was reading this

It's a trump focused piece but let's not fuss about trump himself. Let's talk about the tax code and IRS. It's kinda shit innit?

I'm not gonna point out the problems myself, since y'all might have other ideas than me. What I'm asking is, how would you reform the tax code and IRS to address the problems as you see them?

Pic unrelated. Unless you think the tax code is fine because you plan to become rich and exploit it yourself.


File: 1602464306256.jpeg (673.27 KB, 3541x5016, 3541:5016, jahy738da97c604f8df7a2db4….jpeg) ImgOps Google

One major source of unfairness is that the US taxes citizens who permanently moved to another country unless they renounce their US citizenship.  This should be changed to be in line with most other countries, who tax only residents.  (Of course, some care needs to be taken to avoid creating loopholes, but the experience of other countries can help with this.)


Given that the vast majority of tax code reform proposals amount to "Let's make poor and middle-class individuals pay a shitload more than they currently do" when it all gets boiled down, I'm honestly sort of at the point where I don't even want a good faith effort to change things set out.

Our current system is terrible, but it is rather progressive in the sense of genuinely not soaking the downtrodden the same way that it hypothetically could.

Better the devil we know?


File: 1601936672112.jpg (418.24 KB, 1280x905, 256:181, large.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

This is a thread for sharing music.  I know it is hard to always appreciate differences in taste, but perhaps there will be some overlap in what people like.  One good way to share a song is to provide a link to the Youtube video, although not every song is available there.  Songs with pony videos that go along with them are nice, but if your song does not have a pony video, that's OK.


>This is a thread for sharing music.
Hmm, maybe /pony/ would be a more suitable board.


I wasn't going to go first, but one of the songs I wanted to reference mentioned events in history.  You can make a different thread for only silly songs, I guess.


I guess people don't much care for music, but that's OK, I don't need other posters for a thread; I'm not needy.  I'll post the song I wanted to post, it's about horses.  Maybe I'll post others later.



File: 1601965437887.jpg (67.24 KB, 670x767, 670:767, 3016df0727ab66ef3b369a6837….jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

Why can't the two major political parties in the US manage to find anyone to nominate who supports the entire Bill of Rights?
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File: 1602114942105.jpg (193.35 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, aadlarge.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

Some truth to that, perhaps.  The virtues you refer to would be worded heritage, middle-class values, rule-following, or something like that, I think.  But yes, some kinds of diversity threaten American greatness.

As OP mentions both candidates, I'm aware there's a feeling on the right that under the guise of protecting minorities from perceived bigotry, the left is willing to overlook freedom of religion or free expression.  (Or arms.  And more recently, assembly.)


As someone with part of a social conservative / religiously and racially nationalist background, I can tell you that the nationalists firmly believe that the deism myth is/was left-wing propaganda. As I stated: the Founders were straight white Christians and proud of it. They created a citizenry for fellow straight white Christians. The Bill of Rights doesn't apply to other forms of humanity. That's, well, that's nationalism. That's Trumpian thought for you.

As a side note, I would greatly prefer if people who don't favor ethnic/religious/etc superiority stop calling themselves "nationalists". The word is owned by the alt-right now. That's just the way things are. It's the same as how when people see a swastika on a wall they don't think "oh, a Buddhist symbol for good luck".


Oh, I think it's certainly true that there's a certain progressive counter-part to the alt-right / the nationalists that also fundamentally disbelieve in the humanity of their social adversaries and want to deny those opponents basic human rights. I like the term "control-left" myself because, while cutsey, it conveys the symmetry quite well. You see these sorts of far left extremists on Twitter and various social media sometimes. They're also active on college campuses.

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