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On this anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, it's a question worth pondering. Should we miss President Bush? Do we miss him? Do we wish that he was somehow in office right now?

Personally, I'd say yes. I disagreed with the man politically on a wide number of issues. However, Bush didn't actively work to pit regular people against each other, inflaming divisions based on race, religion, sexual orientation, and so on. Few thought that Bush acted to push for a civil war, and fewer still thought that he actually wanted a civil war. Unlike a good chunk of individuals today, Bush believed in honest disagreement: good people can have opposing views without wanting to destroy each other. I miss that.
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You mean the warmongering that Trump supported back when Bush was President and that has continued under Trump? Same thing with the erosion of privacy? How is that a difference? I agree that those things have been terrible, but they're bipartisan and trans-ideological to where Trump is the same or worse.


I do miss the pre-trump era of politics. Maybe it never existed, but blatant election fraud is expected from both sides at this point, it seems corruption is the rule instead of the exception. At least with bush, and Obama as well, in my opinion, there was the sense that they were well-intentioned people trying to make the country better and were willing to reach across the aisle to get things done. I really don't see that from trump. I'm all for a fairly high level of skepticism about our institutions, but trump seems to try to undermine anything and everything that is critical of him on a fundamental level, and i really don't think that's a healthy way for politics to be run.

>The massive warmongering that got us in to the whole mess in the middle east?

What then, do you suggest, we should have done in response to the world trade center being destroyed? I'm genuinely curious. If that's not something to go to war over, i don't know what is. What exactly do you suggest the response should have been there? In any case, i think calling it "warmongering" to declare war after a major city has been attacked is quite the stretch.


My trouble is, it wasn't an attack from any specific place. It certainly isn't some government-sanctioned bombing or anything like that.
If we're going to war over financing terrorism, we should've fought the Saudis by now.
We certainly shouldn't've invaded two nations and then sat on them for nigh on twenty years with not a single sign anywhere of improvement or practical effect I can see.

As to what I'd do, trace the money, find out who was involved, kill them. See Mossad and the aftermath of the Munich olympics event.
Though, personally, I wouldn't bother with such covert assasinations. I'll grant its effect, but, I'm a fan of the impersonal touch, for instilling fear and caution.
A drone, bomb, cruise missile, or well placed explosive is so much more direct, I feel. No theatrics about it. You're just gone.

A tactic like that would be, I'm quite certain, far more effective and far, far, far cheaper.
Again, it seems to have worked remarkably well for Israel.


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The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) analyzed more than 7,750 Black Lives Matter demonstrations in all 50 states and Washington D.C. that took place in the wake of George Floyd’s death between May 26 and August 22 and found that 93% of protests have been completely peaceful.


With this in mind, why have the more conservative and right-wing news outlets been so focused on the far fewer cases of violence and/or unrest?
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Do we really have solid evidence that black people are disproportionately more likely to want to commit criminal acts and do in fact commit criminal acts disproportionately?

I'm asking this honestly. I've yet to see anything other than arrest and conviction data, which means little to answer the question since whatever X group is arrested the most will be whatever group that gets the most police attention in the first place. Putting the cart before the horse.


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>I've yet to see anything other than arrest and conviction data, which means little to answer the question since whatever X group is arrested the most will be whatever group that gets the most police attention in the first place

If we assume that (in America):
(1) homicides are almost universally reported, and
(2) intra-racial homicide is much more frequent that inter-racial homicide,
then we can look at the number of homicide victims who are black.

I think both of these assumptions can be supported by very credible evidence.



Ah, so the argument is that black Americans are disproportionately more likely to be both murderers and victims compared to their population status? I see. That does appear to come across in the data.


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Would you leave earth and inhabit another planet if you could never come back to earth and would never have contact with earth again?

There are also some conditions to it. You have to qualify to be one of the people that can leave, so you will need to have some basic skill-sets, such as be in physical shape, have some basic amount of intelligence/skill that would be beneficial to the other people you will go with. (Like you need to know how to fix some machinery and such if things were to break-possibly putting your life in danger).

You would also obviously need to be able to work with other people and not be prone to violence, or depression, etc. You also don't want to be taking any life long medicine, as you may not have access to it once you leave.

So assuming you make these qualifications and such, would you be one of those people that would leave everything behind to try and colonize another planet?
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I go where the work is.


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>You have to qualify to be one of the people that can leave, so you will need to have some basic skill-sets, such as be in physical shape

I'm out.  I'd never survive.


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I'd love to.


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In a horrific incident in Portland, the rioting that has taken place for multiple weeks (partly alongside the, it must be said, the separate peaceful protests) escalated to the point that a far right militant was fatally shot by a person or persons unknown. Details are highly sketchy as the police are just starting their investigation Sadly, they don't appear to have that much evidence yet to go on.

>(Details) https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/30/907699226/1-killed-in-portland-amid-clashes-between-pro-trump-caravan-and-counterprotester

Do you expect that as time gets closer to the election, street violence between the far right and others will amp up? From regular people just in the wrong place at the wrong time to Black Lives Matter protesters to far left types actively looking for a fight (and others), incidents will fill up the news as the general mood of the country sours?

Is the danger of political killing exaggerated? Yes, one person died over the weekend, and every death is a tragedy, but this is still viewed as an aberration and the general public doesn't seem to expect it to become a 'new normal' for every day or so somebody to lose their life because of ideology.

Personally, I think that outright civil war or something like that is rather unlikely, but I'm concerned about a slow but sure rise of victims getting hurt or even killed in random-ish events. But maybe that's just falling for 'if it bleeds, it leads' news coverage that stresses division over people getting along?
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>It was clearly murder.
Serious, non-rhetorical question: Did you watch the video?  I don't see how someone can reasonably claim not only that it was murder, but that it was clearly murder.  He was being assaulted by a mob of people.  He was hit by a skateboard by one person and he shot another person who was drawing a handgun on him (and possibly would have fired if he didn't lose a portion of his bicep).  It is at least plausible that it was self-defense.  And personally, I'd say that the evidence very heavily points toward a verdict of self-defense.



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Gaige Grosskreutz (the man whom Kyle shot in the arm) allegedly admitted that he might have killed Kyle if Kyle hadn't disarmed him first.  Personally I'd say that Kyle has less than a 10% chance of getting convicted of first-degree intentional homicide (the Wisconsin equivalent of murder) -- and the only reason that I'd go as high as 10% is my lack of confidence in the justice system.


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>The entire police system is corrupt
If you mean the system considered as a whole (as opposed to all the officers considered individually), then I agree.

>its not a matter of "bad cops", but completely reforming the system.
I agree.  The police have too much unaccountable power and too little oversight.


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Defamation against non-civilians is bad but, as long as they are political opponents then outright willful lies are "political speech".

I understand that factual basis can be challenged, threatening any sort of free speech, but why do politicians get a pass on being dishonest pieces of shit due for the guillotine?

Secondarily, should the guillotine be used for political lies.  I'd love to see Gorsuch's head lopped off for the Trans-Am Trucking absurdity, even considering my neck would still go first.

Thoughts?  Do anons on this board even have thoughts of their own or just spout their masters' lies?
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Ah, I see. Still, if they can use it for things like this, it definitely should be axed.



>That would be state law, not the federal statute at issue.  Not every tort is addressable in federal court.

If there is a federal question or other means of federal jurisdiction then absolutely every state issue involved in the matter is also under the jurisdiction of the federal court.

Further contract law is the opposite of torts and entirely different.  Just to correct your vocabulary.


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Two years ago, homeless people in my area (American city) started grouping together, first in a buffer between a highway and businesses.  This year, I think, is a year for increased homelessness and there are various camps in parks and around lakes.

I know people become homeless when they don't make 2.5 or 3 times the asking price for rent, have bad credit, or behaved in some way that make them uninteresting to landlords.  Or if they had a house owned by the bank, didn't make the bank happy.  Or something similar.  Few people like to be homeless, so it is part of the economic system for conditioning proper behavior.  So I understand all that, but I think I have what might be a stupid question.

Let's say someone becomes homeless.  If they do or can not fix the problem in one waking period, given most people need to sleep, they will need to sleep.  Where is the respectful place for good homeless people to sleep?  I gather these camps make people upset -- people complain and eventually police clear them by force and trash the tents.  I gather tent camps are not the way.  Where should the good homeless people sleep?
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How many available jobs are there in the middle of nowhere, though? Or is the plan to look for jobs in larger towns and then ship the homeless off there to work? Where will they live once they get there? I really don't see how that's suppose to work...


My experience, it's a lot easier to find work in rural areas, since they've usually still got a lot of stuff that needs doing, and a lot fewer people doing it.
That does depend on the kind of area, though. Has to have some business after all.


I used a butterknife purchased at thrift to cut footholds into a muddy cliff to setup my own homeless camp out of view on a hill too unstable to subdivide.

Im not sure how anyone can stand pitching a tent where the cops can see you and dope fiends can rob you.  Thats just asking for further disenfranchisement.  If i didnt have a nice mountain to climb up and setup camp where i had a few months undisturbed to work on my life situation, i'd still be out there.

Also, while i was homeless it was not dope fiends but middle class white folks who stopped in to rob me, even trying to load my cart into his SUV claiming that it was abandoned while he tried to pry it out of my hands.

 No.6289[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

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BLM: "All cops are bastards"
Biden: *Picks a cop to be his running mate*

Interesting choice.  And yeah, Kamala Harris is actually a former prosecutor, not a cop, but it's close enough.  And she did have responsibility for bringing charges against cops who broke the law.  Query: During her tenure as prosecutor, how many cops within her jurisdiction engaged in unlawful violence, and of those, how many did she indict?

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Well it's obvious at this point that I disagree, but let's move to a slightly different question.

Rather than "as bad", is it "good"?  Or is that still bad, and just not "as bad"?

My fundamental claim was not the technicalities of what a belief is and what separates it from an action.  My claim is that the police state removes rights from people based on laws that the felon had no influence in making.  It's one thing for someone to agree to a contract and upon breaking that contract being penalized by the other side.  It's another thing entirely for someone to write a contract without direct input and then hold an individual to this contract whose existence they opposed.

To expound upon my first post, living under a police state is fine if you agree with all the decisions said police state has made.  If you support the police state, then there is likely no disagreement in what they are doing, and if one surfaces then it's probable that the fault doesn't lie with the state.

If you disagree with the police state, and then live out your life in defiance of the police state, an entity that has decided to enforce rules without your consent, then the fault lies squarely with the police state, and not the person who has simply attracted the social ire of the people the police state represents.

>This said, though, it's a fairly different argument from whether or not the police are racist, as the initial trail went on

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>Rather than "as bad", is it "good"?  Or is that still bad, and just not "as bad"?
I'd say it's still bad (assuming you're referring to criminalizing the pagan ritual in >>6591).

>It's one thing for someone to agree to a contract and upon breaking that contract being penalized by the other side.  It's another thing entirely for someone to write a contract without direct input and then hold an individual to this contract whose existence they opposed.
Personally, I lean towards being a moderate libertarian.  I feel individuals generally shouldn't be punished for acts that don't pose a significant risk of being harmful.  But things like driving recklessly while heavily intoxicated, or dumping pollution into a river, or building a nuclear power plant without modern safety features --- those things I think can be justly criminalized.  Also, I think some level of taxation can be justly imposed, and that tax evasion can be criminalized.  


>Finding general solutions regardless of race should also solve any problems wherein the police use their position for racism.
I can definitely agree 100% there. Police reform should not require any specific consideration of race, as the entire point is to have law as fair and neutral, without the concern of the color of somebody's skin.

>But if anything falls short of that base level of agreement then maybe it doesn't have enough support to be considered "reasonable".
sure, but if you have that kind of support, you can probably get political change without breaking the law in that regard.
Though again, like I said, civil disobedience to prove a point is not inherently wrong.
There are plenty of cases of people doing that for good reasons. Like I said, I think the gym in new jersey is a good example, there's also the feminist I recall Trump posthumously pardoned who voted it legally, And I would say the activists painting over a political slogan in New York who as I understand it inevitably get arrested for vandalism are likewise, ultimately, justified in their civil disobedience.

It's just that, getting arrested for civil disobedience doesn't mean you aren't allowed to believe something. Nor does it mean you aren't allowed to push for something.
You are still free to say, and believe, however you like.
It's the actions that have consequences.


As you've probably heard by now, a Minneapolis police officer kept his knee on George Floyd's neck until Floyd died (and didn't remove his knee until well after Floyd was dead).  Was it murder?  I'll await the autopsy report, but it sure as hell looks like murder from what I've seen.  What do you all think?

To quote from another site:
This is a police officer laying his knee on this guys neck until he dies. It’s so fucking obvious that he’s going to die. And the cop still doesn’t move. It’s so obvious that the man has stopped breathing and is clearly not a threat because he’s literally a corpse.

Yet the officer still keeps his knee in the guys neck.

The people are begging these officers to just check his pulse. But he’s still just keeping his knee in his neck.
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What studies? I'm curious.


I remember reading a news story about this, but I couldn't manage it find it now.  The best I found was this:
>According to an Institute of Transportation Engineers Study, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are six times as likely to be involved in an accident.


I see. Interesting.


Let me ask you a seemingly simple question: In an election with more than two candidates, if one candidate always wins against any other candidate in a head to head battle, should they be considered the winner?

This is known as a Condorcet winner, and it has caused a major paradoxical issue in today's voting systems. Largely because a Condorcet winner does not always exist. Anyone who has ever played a three-way game of Rock Paper Scissors should recognize the possibility of a no-win condition. But many people instinctively believe that any voting system should always choose the Condorcet winner if one does exist.

I was shown a wonderful article recently showing the flaws in different voting systems, and how ranked voting can have wildly different results depending on what system you use to count the tallies.
Additionally, all of these ranked voting systems introduce a measure of strategic voting, which always pushes voting toward a two party system where voters vote against the candidate they hate, instead of for the candidate they want.

Cardinal voting is often proposed as a solution to this problem, because it preserves independence of irrelevant factors, which many ranked systems do not. there is no penalty for voting up your favorite candidate, so this feels like a more fair system for finding a popular candidate.

Interestingly, none of the four most popular ranked voting methods today choose the Condorcet winner, or the winner who would win against any other candidate in a head to head battle, when using the proposed sample ballots in the linked article. Nor does cardinal voting under most conditions. and even more interesting, not all ballot conditions produce a Condorcet winner

This proposes an interesting philosophical dilemma. If crafting a voting system that always chooses the Condorcet winner if one exists is impossible, how important is it to always choose the Condorcet winner? Should this be our primary concern, or should we focus more on the most popular winner overall? This is a largely undecided philosophical dilemma, so all opinions are welcome in addition to facts and figures.
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>That sounds really hard to do in a way that isn't extremely susceptible to tactical voting.  



if only two candidates ever ran, you'd be correct, but in any system more than 2 running candidates, First-past-the-post voting nearly always forces a non Condorcet winner who more than half the population hates, and in some cases it grants victory to the Condorcet loser.

And yes, the minority should be able to have a voice, which is why ranked voting or even range voting would be better than plurality votes.


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Come to think of it, the presidential primaries probably would be a good place to adopt a Condorcet method.  It likely would have avoided selecting Trump as the Republican nominee in 2016.  (As I understand it, most Republican primary voters were against Trump, but they split their votes among many other candidates, so Trump got a plurality, even though he wouldn't have won in a head-to-head contest with any moderate candidate.)  And I think the parties, as private organizations, can just make this change themselves, without the need for new laws.  


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Is 5.56mm adequate for humans?
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Not like you need a man-sized bullet to kill a man.
Though, that would be pretty awesome. Probably not feasible for logistics and portability.


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Someone pointed out that Bullet Bill is so large and going so slow that he probably wouldn't even bruise Mario.


Depends, doesn't it?
-Are you trying to kill, or stop?
-What range are we talking about?
-Are we talking head shots, body shots, or what?
-what style bullet are we using?
-are we assuming they're wearing clothes? How many?

It all depends, lots of factors to consider.


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What piece of music can you say is legitimately the "greatest ever"?

What about if we just restrict things to modern, non-classical music?
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Right, I'm not even sure I could choose a favorite piece of music, much less declare it the greatest ever.  Once you start adding categories you can break it up a bit more, though.

In that sense, what kind of categories would one need to create a comprehensive list?  Is it just genre?  I feel like that might be too vague as we try to figure out where a song belongs.


I'd say you could breat it up by category and timeframe. Like "90s Pop" or "80s Metal".


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I guess by physical sales, White Christmas by Bing Crosby.  Christmas comes every year, the characteristic music is from the 1940's and 1950's, so it fills a continuing 'need' for those wishing to set the Christmas mood (especially to subject customers and associates).  So there's a great one for utility-music.

Suppose if we were to open it beyond record sales, "Happy Birthday to You" might be greater still, as there is even less diversity in music for celebrating birthdays.

So that's one kind of great (granted, probably the least interesting kind).

 No.5957[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

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Now that the creator of Harry Potter has outed herself as a terrible person, can we all finally agree that Harry Potter was never good? That you were all just easily-impressionable kids and that with the hindsight of adults the whole franchise kinda sucks? Can we make this the official stance going forward? It would really hinder J.K. Rowling's ability to say bigoted stuff AND be listened to.
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Oh yes, how terrible of Trump do have concerns about security on a Chinese app that appears to actively steal data...

Trump could start a "feed baby kittens" campaign, and people would still be against it because the orange man is bad


We have reasons to believe he's bad. We didn't just all get together and decide it one day. You not seeing them/are actively choosing to ignore and excuse them isn't our problem.

Trump has been trying to smear China since day one. People in his administration have even tried to say that they created the Corona virus with no proof. Is it possible TikTok is some sort of security risk? Sure. But I'm going to take his going after an app made in China with a grain of salt because of that history of him tirade against anything Chinese. It just looks like more of the same when he goes after a phone app for babies to share their dances on.


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>But I'm going to take his going after an app made in China with a grain of salt because of that history of him tirade against anything Chinese.
You are right to question anything that comes out of Trump's mouth.  The man is a pathological liar.   But, like a broken clock, Trump is occasionally correct.  As someone who does cybersecurity as my job, I can say that TikTok is most definitely a clusterfuck in terms of privacy and security.

(Just for clarity: I am not saying that I support Trump's idea to ban TikTok from the US.  I would certainly recommend to anyone that they refrain from installing TikTok's app or to remove it if they have already installed it.  But employing the heavy hand of government against an app involves more considerations than just its cybersecurity concerns.)

 No.6125[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

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How do you judge a person? Do you believe in sorting people into strict categories such as good and bad? When trying to understand a person's negative traits, how much leniency can we give them? How do you balance a person's good actions with their bad actions?
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Perhaps there should be more legal protection for employees against shitty behavior by their employers, especially if the employer is a large corporation run by MBAs focusing on quarterly earnings.


Not against it. Though, I imagine it's something that'd be difficult to pass for legislation.
Where would you really start?


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It is a hard problem.  I think California has some employee protections for political activity.

But now my brain is shutting down its logical reasoning centers; it is time for me to head to bed and get some sleep.  Goodnight!

 No.5815[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

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In the past, it was often conservatives who tried to suppress viewpoints that they disagreed with, but now it seems that the left/SJWs are the worst offenders.  What can we do to ensure a culture where people feel free to speak their opinions openly and engage in honest debate without fear of attacks (kinetic or otherwise) from angry mobs?



(mirror: http://archive.is/kQ0I3)
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I mean. You can just look up the text of the bill online and skip the professional opinion-havers... it's kind of terrible? I mean. It is weirdly bipartisan, but it's also totally pointless. It's the kind of vapid feel good nonsense you usually get from the left.

Like. The bill discourages the formal training of choke holds in police academies, it discourages filing false police reports to cover up murder and constitutional violations, it suggests creating a 12 member senate sub committee to explore what it would be like if they were black, and the attorney general will talk to other attorney generals in the states to talk about how it would be neat if there was a training program or something for police that taught them policing and they will report back with their findings that police academies exist.

In the second part the bill swears to make a pamphlet summarizing their findings on what if they were black and is there training for broad distribution, and also to make it illegal for police to rape people in their custody authorizes the attorney general to offer a grant to states that discourage raping people under police custody.

... actually looking through the amendments the only things that even mention anything plausibly meaningful are amendments that Rand Paul added. There is some minor grant reform. Some additional paperwork added to civil forfeitures that looks like it was struck down since it isn't in the body of the finalized bill unlike the other amendments, but that might just be a bureaucratic thing.


My trouble is, all that could've been brought up in a debate on the bill.
Blocking even the debate doesn't address these issues. It's just cowardice.


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This is my first time here.

So.... Hi! Nice to meet you!
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True. But, again, there's no cause to be. No advantage to be gained.

>It was not my intention at all to be dismissive or belittling. I am literally just calling things how I see them, I don't really have the time or energy to waste on pettiness.
Fair enough. Like I said, as long as you wouldn't take offense in the example I gave you, I am not ultimately justified and expecting my standards to supercede your own, especially without you knowing mine to begin with.
That's on me.

>except that the mod doesn't insult you which is something you care enough to criticize me for.
I care that anyone does so. It doesn't matter to me if you are a moderator. I am inclined to treat you as I would any other poster.
The most you given that regard is the unfortunate tie of that particular groups' issues and histories, which I admit do influence me in regards to my presumptions.

As to whether or not I am bad at explaining things, possibly. Probably.
I blame it on being very direct and very literal.
Unfortunate reality is that most people aren't, and so this causes communication issues. Difficult to unlearn, and I'm not entirely sure I want to, as I don't see that rigidity as inherently bad.

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Cool, well I'm legitimately glad to clear that up. I'm sorry if I was being short with you, I have a very very long history of dealing with people who are out to pick apart fucking every innocuous thing I have to say with a mod tag on. Which, you don't even give a shit that I am a mod, that's kinda wonderful to me, haha.

I think you still are breaking the rules of the board in this thread, whether you care about that or not, but you're alright with me otherwise. Thanks for putting in the time to be understood, I don't like the feeling that I'm not hearing a person who wants to be heard.


No worries. Like I said, it's kind of on me for jumping to conclusions and all.
Whole point of language is to facilitate understanding, yet despite that it does a rather sorry job at times.
Thanks for staying on until that point was reached

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