No.15837[View All]
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How come calling out racist activity gets called "anti-white racism" here?
Why is calling out racists, bigots and fascists a no-no?
Why do cowards always fail to face the violence of the past?
29 posts and 7 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. No.15880
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>>15862Because it's an argument against resurrecting that past, an argument that no one here seems to even engage with on a honest level.
>Feeling "humility" for someone else's actions is just dumb.>You didn't do it.>You aren't responsible.>They aren't your mistakes.Humility isn't taking responsibility for others mistakes, it's not even about taking responsibility, it's about rejecting arrogance. Having humility for your group identity means accepting that not everyone in your personal ingroup are going to be perfect either.
>If anything, you ought be able to take pride in the fact that you haven't done such a thing, wouldn't do such a thing, and can categorically declare it to be evil.Agreed, but ... if you're confident in that than why would people here in this board be so stupidly sensitive about it to the point they would call even
mentioning the past anti-white racism?
>"feel bad about past crimes or else ur fragile, whiteman!">Yeah, I wonder why people accused you of racism...That's not at all what humility is and that's not what I am saying anyone needs to do, nor anyone else who even simply mentions the past.
>>15864>Being blamed and expect to 'fix' what your ancestors committed to isn't humility. That's passing blame.>I dont think humility means what you think it meansIf you think that being asked to be humble about being a white American means taking blame for racism in the past, then it's
you who doesn't understand what humility means.
No.15882
>>15880> it's about rejecting arrogance.By "accepting one's future shortcomings" because of the past crimes of someone totally disconnected from you beyond the color of their skin?
Why is refusing such an association in the first place "arrogance"?
>Having humility for your group identity means accepting that not everyone in your personal ingroup are going to be perfect either. Because I am not a racist, I can accept that rather easily without needing to internalize some ancient crimes I have nothing to do with.
The color of someone's skill doesn't mean they're going to agree with me, relate with me, any of that. I don't need "humility" for a group identity in order to realize that.
>Agreed, but ... if you're confident in that than why would people here in this board be so stupidly sensitive about it to the point they would call even mentioning the past anti-white racism? I don't believe that's what's occurring.
Rather, I think you yourself have made it pretty clear what people're actually pointing out;
When you complain about the "fragility of my fellow white folk", because they unlike you don't want to have the weight of someone else's past crimes upon them, I don't think it's unreasonable for one to point out the bigotry present in that statement.
> that's not what I am saying anyone needs to do, Then what "should" be done with such information? Because feeling "humility" for it certainly seems to fall into that category, from what you yourself have described.
It's a "shortcoming" that stems from your identity. One that evidently brings "potential future shortcomings" as well, no less. All because of a race you happen to share, alone. And if you don't "accept" that "mistake", well, you're just a fragile white guy.
Honestly, I just don't see how it's anything other than "feel bad about this for my political advantage".
No.15889
>>15842>>15843It's amazing how much you people take what some random radical minority says sometimes and then act like it's a inescapable disease among the left and have to paint every random leftist you encounter the same way.
>>15858>And whether you're a freaky Proud Boy psychopath or a genuine communist or just some incoherent idiot, whatever you are, you're basically going to fail horribly and look to everybody else like a cringe Tiktok come to life.While I'm not a communist, I don't think one of these things is like the other. Communism is probably the most misunderstood ideology from those who identify as communists to those who oppose it to those who are neutral. Perhaps the idea isn't ideal for many people and that's fair, but acting like it's inherently bad just because of what a bunch of vanguardists did years ago who betrayed most ideals they claimed to uphold at every turn is incredibly reductive.
No.15892
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>>15890First of no, not "every time". But sure maybe you could argue that when people feel passionate enough about what they see as a good thing that must happen or otherwise be maintained then they may get out of control. You could say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" but then this also brings every good idea into question. See also what I said: "just because of what a bunch of vanguardists did years ago who betrayed most ideals they claimed to uphold at every turn". You can find awful things inherently like this within fascism, nazism, and similar ideologies and movements (like the proud boys) but I challenge you to show me where any of this is encouraged inherently with communism itself and not just what some guy later said who became associated with it. This isn't even counting movements that just blatantly hijacked it and turned it into their own thing like the khmer rouge.
>and totalitarian regimes.And it is a stateless ideology. Isn't that funny?
No.15898
>>15892There are absolutely multiple points throughout Marx's writing explicitly advocating, encouraging, and otherwise pushing for violence.
But then, frankly, I don't think it's worth discussing, considering you buy in to the "It's totally capitalism's fault people starve to death" nonsense.
No.15900
>>15897People literally do the exact same thing with naziism.
It's pretty much par the course to accuse an adversary, when it comes to ideologues.
You know how many times I've been told I'm a nazi here, on townhall, despite being a pretty radical anti-state individualist?
Don't worry about what tribalists throw around. Even they don't believe it. It's just a partisan attack.
No.15905
>>15898>There are absolutely multiple points throughout Marx's writing explicitly advocating, encouraging, and otherwise pushing for violence.Violence against who and in what situation? Did Marx say to genocide a bunch of people because of their ethnicity or race? To stifle the working class's say in soviets and effectively use coercive force to create a more and more authoritarian and eventually totalitarian state at the expense of many other communists and socialists and continued betraying their own ideals even beyond that like the bolsheviks did when they set the standard? Did Marx advocate killing random people because they opposed The Regime? I'm not saying it may not be shit regardless, but not all violence is the same kind. You could attribute a fair amount to what Marx said I suppose, but I would say the majority of it was not something he'd even tentatively approve of in totality especially for how much of it also came against the working class and betrayed them. We're also not even touching on other forms of communism like anarcho-communism, libertarian marxism, primitive communism before all of this, etc. And none of these things even if they came from Marx are inherent to communism in a similar way to how a lot of forms of marxism deviate from marx's teachings a lot but hold certain core principles. It's a shame too because I think there are plenty of criticisms to be had about communism even as an ideology aside from all of this, but it can never be talked about because the focus is always on this. If you want to attack communism, it'd probably even be more effective to go for what it inherently is.
>But then, frankly, I don't think it's worth discussing, considering you buy in to the "It's totally capitalism's fault people starve to death" nonsense.Posting a image doesn't mean I inherently agree with all it's aspects. It's there for a reason even if it's not entirely lining up with what I think. But whoever put that there likely did so because people buy into the "people starve to death because of communism" when it's not that simple. It's never remotely that simple. It's a factor for sure but it's also a oversimplification as it is with capitalism.
No.15914
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>>15892>You can find awful things inherently like this within fascism, nazismhitler accomplished some good things communism is just inept
No.15921
>>15866I'm not worshipping cops by any definition other than your own. But, if that is worshipping cops then I'm not going to stop.
Stay mad
No.16030
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>Nazis >Hitler Bitch I'm the villain..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtlLItOKg3c>They don't understand the things I say on Twitter>ALL MY N'S NZ'S N HH! >N HH! No.16031
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>>15914The nazi party was against smoking and advocated for animal rights. They also were cool with slaughtering humans, but I won't deny they had some good things going on for you if you were German/A German ally.
No.16037
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>>16032It's deeper than that. You gotta analyze the lyrics.
"N's see my twitter but they don't see how I be feeling..
So I became a N*zi, yeah, bitch I'm the villain..
They don't understand the things I say on twitter. All my N's* Nz*s, N* HH N HH, N HH, All my N'S Nz'S, N HH
They don't understand the way I be feelin"
I fuck with that. I think it is relevant.
No.16038
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It's not about Kayne being a nazi at all. It's about Kanye getting fed up with being told what to do, what to say, and how to feel. It's about being misconstrued and having words twisted in the eyes of the judgemental majority or minority for that matter.
It's about saying "Okay you're calling me a monster. You're calling me the villain. Then I'm going to
to be the villain."
It's completely relevant to this thread as well as the national political environment here in America. It's pure, raw, unfiltered emotion in the most human way possible.
Anyway, if people like this:
>>15837>>15840Are telling you to feel bad about the past and that you have to show others humility and be humble over it, then they probably aren't worth listening to or caring if they call you a coward because you're not willing to perform some song-and-dance humiliation ritual every time black people are brought up, or native americans, or [insert topic or group of people you're supposed to feel guilty about].
Life your life. Be a good dude, and ignore the useless shaming. It's funny how living a great life tends to piss these types of people off.
No.16041
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>>16039>>16040Becoming the monster people claim you to be isn't always right, but it can feel justified.
On the opposite note it does remind me when say, black people for example or any other race claims to be peaceful and all that but then turns to violence when someone calls them a racial slur. Like "Ah yes, they think I am a violent criminal so I am going to break the law and violently attack them. That'll show them how peaceful and reasonable we are."
Like I said, I know at the end of the day it typically isn't the most mature thing go and do and be like "If you see me as this, then that's what I'll be."
In this case people had been calling Kanye a nazi for a long time over his comments on Jewish people ect. Maybe he felt misunderstood. I never kept up with it closely, but I can understand the feelings of frustration and the esclation it causes between people.
I was just posting it because it seems revelant to not just the tone of interaction I'm getting from this thread (Not that people in here are 'embracing the monster' but rather saying 'dude shut up, we didn't fucking do anything'. People are sick of the virtue signaling.) but rather the way many places within the country have turned when it comes to racial relations.
That and the song is, well.. Funny. It's fucking hilarious.
No.16042
>>16041>Becoming the monster people claim you to be isn't always right, but it can feel justified. It can feel right and justified, but in many cases at least it's not. Most of the time all it does is make an ass of one's self and set one's self on a further angry bitter spiral downward.
>On the opposite note it does remind me when say, black people for example or any other race claims to be peaceful and all that but then turns to violence when someone calls them a racial slur. Like "Ah yes, they think I am a violent criminal so I am going to break the law and violently attack them. That'll show them how peaceful and reasonable we are."That's also not a good way of handling it most of the time but I understand that more than this after Kanye said Hitler had a lot of redeeming qualities and denied the holocaust, rambled about the "jewish media", and just on and on kept praising nazis and hitler in the same breath and much more. When even Alex Jones was trying to push back on what he was saying you know it's bad. And it wasn't even just that interview. Kanye had a lot to prove he wasn't and instead he chose to double down and prove he was. So I really can't see any value in the video other than a cautionary tale of what not to do after you say things like that and much more. Whether it's somewhat relevant or not I think it's not a good idea is all I'm saying.
>but I can understand the feelings of frustration and the esclation it causes between people. The problem is he did a lot to earn that reputation and he just kept doubling down, like I can't sensibly feel much for this guy other than understanding what it's like to be frustrated at what people say because he made his bed and now he's lying in it.
>but rather the way many places within the country have turned when it comes to racial relations. It's a mess but like I said above I think this song is only valuable as a cautionary tale of what not to do. Anyway, I was mostly just giving advice especially since I can't stop you from posting it anyway. It seems more and more like you're similar to my past self or in some ways sometimes similar to my present self than either of us would be entirely comfortable with.
No.16043
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>>16042I think the problem is that Hitler and the Nazi party where in fact charismatic. That is evident to this day. And they did have some really good ideas that resonated with a lot of people. I mean Hitler was on Time Magazine of all places and was well respected by a lot of the world even during the war. It wasn't until after he lost that the defamation really, really began to settle in.
I really don't care much for the guy. He's just another historical figure at this point who has been dead for almost 100 years.
(Personally if we're gonna talk murderers, I prefer Vlad the Impaler. Man was a savage)
People just tend to forget to separate that and the fact that they murdered a shit load of people; not just jews.
At the end of the day, I'm not saying what Kanye is doing is a smart move, but I understand it. It's one fueled on emotion, and I think most human beings on the planet can relate to letting emotion rule at least one or two decisions in their lives.
I don't agree with the exact message, but I can relate to the raw unfiltered pride and pain driven delivery of its message. "Fuck this."
No.16045
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>>16044People are wild. I think we can both agree on that. Regardless, we're talking about it. That's the point of art and expression I suppose.
I don't think it's something people have to walk eggshells around. This isn't the Warp and dealing with chaos daemon or anything. If anything, I say if you want to see what being a nazi is about; go right the fuck ahead. It doesn't hurt my feelings. And it shouldn't. I've had friends that were racist as fuck; against my own race even, but at the end of the day (I keep saying that lol) we saw eye to eye as individuals. Funny enough, a lot of them changed with time. Guess I have a knack for killing people with kindness. It also helps I know how to talk shit back and turn things from straight malicious to entertaining for everyone.
If you think about it, race is pretty funny. All of our differences are funny. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
https://youtu.be/2A3ryjroZW8?si=1pTuM93qSv_Tyylp&t=119I really miss the days when people could just see eye to eye and say "I fucking think you're a piece of shit" and group of friends could say the most RACIST shit to each other while laughing without making it political.
I miss the military on that last bit. Goddamn we would roast each other.
No.16047
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>>16046
>I simply suggested it probably wasn't a good look for you to post it to others here
Nah, not myself. I meant it general. I've mentioned it before, I don't really care if people here don't like me. I mean, it would be nice if I were accepted, but I am used to being a black sheep and a misfit. I get it, but I'm not going to follow the crowd on an idea if I don't really want to.
I feel it is better to be hated for being honest rather than loved for telling a lie.
>Or simply not being so incredibly hostile or worse about incredibly stupid things that produce no demonstrable harm or offense.
Hehe, yeah. Especially when it comes to jokes. I really love making my friends laugh. It's like.. when they laugh genuinely it's so infectious. It makes me want to just cackle like a little gremlin or something
In person it's so much easier to feel someone's personal boundaries, which I do respect. It's all about tact. Coming at me sideways and getting super pissed off and hostile actually makes me want to double down in most cases. But simply saying politely, but firmly "Hey I don't like that. Please stop." And I can suddenly go to my default politeness.
Believe it or not, I actually really hate making people feel upset unless I feel I have been wronged or someone I care about has been wronged. It actually really upsets me when someone feels sad. Hell, even somebody I don't know. I've actually made quite a few friends here and there that way.
It's weird. When I see someone getting unfairly treated or wronged or harmed, it's like this thing in my head snaps and I want to protect. Is that weird?
No.16048
>>16047Don't worry about my post deletion just was getting tired and feeling strange and thinking strange.
>It's weird. When I see someone getting unfairly treated or wronged or harmed, it's like this thing in my head snaps and I want to protect. Is that weird? I can feel the same, although I don't know much we feel it over the same things
No.16049
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Anyway, threads like this make me feel a little blue. Because I see sooo many people who are normally pretty wonderful to one another; that I recognize by posting style drawing their blades and clawing at one another's throats over opinions.
Like they don't even try to understand the opposite opinion. And I get it: even if you do, it might offend you. For example: I am hispanic. If someone says some stupid shit about mexicans or whatever, I might not agree with the thought, but that doesn't mean I automatically think they are a piece of shit by that merit alone. I'll try to understand it, and even if we can't agree that doesn't mean we have to kill one another over it, or even fight. We can talk civil like and try to understand our positions. Even if that opinion is malicious in nature and disgusting to me.
Everyone has their limits of course, but I feel most things even racist, sexist, or otherwise stereotypical in nature come from places of fear, anger, and misunderstanding.
I'll even say this and I don't care how people judge. I do not like the black community what so ever as it stands. Yet I have met so many wonderful black people in my life that it's made me realize while people and groups as a whole might not jive with you, you can always keep your mind open and your heart willing to give love to those who prove you wrong.
I like to be proven wrong. I enjoy meeting people that I get along with. That's why I don't care when I hear people make generalizations about myself because they don't apply. I know it, and I have proven time and time again to people like that, that I'm actually incredibly friendly to be around if you let me love you. I'm not perfect, but I try.
Anyway, I'm a little buzzed. I'm probably not making sense and rambling.
No.16051
>>16039It's not an uncommon choice folk make.
There's a reason most the time you want to get someone out of a cult or such, you befriend them first. You catch more flies with honey.
And beyond that, becoming the 'dragon' so to speak after being prodded just feels good.
No.16052
>>16043Vlad was a gigachad who did nothing wrong tbh.
Kind of wild how his name's twisted outside of that region, though. Associated with bloodthirsty vampires, rather than the defiant hero he's oft seen as in his homeland.
No.16053
>>16052He was crazy, and malicious. Never get that twisted. He was actually insane after his time with the Turks, but yes, he did through arguably necessary cruelty saved his home and people.
Man actually did dip his bread in blood and wine while he ate. Left muslim turks impaled alive at the outskirts on purpose so that they would speak in the same language as them to warn them.
There's a story about two muslim turks who were messengers who refused to remove their head garments.. So he told them "If you don't want them removed you'll wear them forever" and had their turbans nailed to their skulls, killing them in the process.
Also inspired this METAL AS FUCK song about his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2TbI0NTCo No.16054
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Man you people went way out of your way to twist meanings of words to turn 'humility' into 'groveling' and 'guilt'.
Humble is not a gesture or something you show. It's a state of being where one can accept the fallibility of one's judgment while maintaining one's self-esteem. And having humility for one's ingroup does not mean groveling over their sins or taking responsibility for them, it just means being able to accept that their judgement was just as fallible as anyone else's and that sharing an identity with them doesn't make one better than anyone else.
Talking about racism in the past to make the point that the past wasn't better than the present isn't meant to shame anyone here in the present. It's meant to argue against mythologizing it, modeling the present or future after it and an argument against building one's identity around it. That's literally
all it is.
You people are really fucking fragile if you can't accept that and insteas see it all as personal attacks against you for being white.
>>16049>Everyone has their limits of course, but I feel most things even racist, sexist, or otherwise stereotypical in nature come from places of fear, anger, and misunderstanding.I personally understand that that's true ... and that's why I call it cowardice, cause that's what it is. I try to have empathy for that, but I
also have empathy for people who would suffer from the actions of the fearful and angry with no self control, I'm not going to see that as absolving the bigot who does the wrong thing out of that fear, anger or misunderstanding. If you tell me to have empathy for the nazi beating up a gay guy for simply being gay because he's fearful or angry or doesn't understand, you'll just make me hate the nazi that much more and judge you for not applying the same to the gay guy getting beaten up. "Oh you don't understand he's a bigot cause he's scared and doesn't understand", yeaah fuck off, it doesn't absolve anything.
No.16055
>>16054>accept the fallibility of one's judgment There is no fallability in one's judgement that arises from past sins committed by someone else who is not you.
I had nothing to do with any of that. I wasn't even alive at the time.
>one's ingroupHonestly I think the biggest issue here with all of this is that you're looking at race through, to be frank, a racist's lens.
Most of us do not regard race as an "in group".
Most of us belive it to be little more than a physical characteristic of which one should not be judged for.
One that has little bearing on them, as an individual.
>You people are really fucking fragile >"AGREE WITH ME OR UR A BABY!!!1!!!"Yeah, no, fuck off.
