Student Loan Crisis Solutions?

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Student Loan Crisis Solutions? Brave Caterpillar 08/19/21 (Thu) 20:21:07 No.9610

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In a surprise move, the Biden administration's Department of Education seeks to forgive something like $6 billion dollars in student loan debt for individuals in a specific working situation.

Story: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/student-loan-forgiveness-disabled-borrowers-150036471.html

The U.S. student loan crisis is an interesting problem. While I've got more opinions on different issues than I can manage, really, I'm on the fence when it comes to this. Should the government keep going through situations piecemeal? Should all student debt just be ended? If so, what about the economic consequences... isn't there a kind of ethical dilemma when it comes to those who did pay things off?

Whimsical Crab 08/19/21 (Thu) 20:42:29 No.9612

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>>9610
>ethical dilemma when it comes to those who did pay things off?
I don't know. I joined the military to pay for college, and have never had debt, but presumably sacrificed years of my life for that privilege. [However I also found I didn't care for the systems of judgement and division college tries to foster, so never got a degree. I'm now founding my own personal University, which is going great.]

If...the college debt system is broken [I've seen enough to know every system has supporters], it will be very hard to create a solution that won't make some feel shorted.

I think I'd be most in favor of some kind of limit on how much student loan debt a person could have. I know people with 1/4 of a million -- you could say, it tops off at X dollars. It wouldn't help the person with massive debt now, but it would stop things from getting worse.

Brave Caterpillar 08/19/21 (Thu) 22:27:59 No.9613

>>9610
A cap could make sense, but then it'd be difficult to determine where it should be. Only $10,000, maybe? Or $50,000? Any number seems unfair and arbitrary.

In the interest of fairness, a cap would seem that it'd have to be retrospective as well, with those in profuse current debt having it reduced to a given total. I guess. There'd still be the issue of what about those who did pay things off by themselves.

Whimsical Crab 08/19/21 (Thu) 23:42:38 No.9614

>>9613
>Only $10,000, maybe? Or $50,000?
Right, you'd have to select a reasonable number, which is hard. And the number would probably have to represent a max of payments, otherwise one could still spend a lifetime servicing student loan debt.

>a cap would seem that it'd have to be retrospective as well
Right, you could do that, as a species of debt forgiveness basically.

>those who did pay things off by themselves
I feel like it would never happen, but you could offer refunds. Let's say nobody will have to pay more than $50,000 for student loans -- representing a sum of payments on both principle, interest and fees. If you happened to have done so in paying off a large loan, you will receive a refund for what you paid beyond $50,000. [Although I guess that would mean someone was getting part of their education for free. And particularly expensive education for free. I don't know. I think no matter what you do, someone will feel cheated. The other option is to do nothing about the problem.]

Of course, with a cap on student loans, some will not be able to complete their education on time, or will have to select less expensive education. I suppose that's bad.

Blushing Iguana 08/20/21 (Fri) 00:09:53 No.9616

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>>9610
>The Education Department (ED) is discharging $5.8 billion in student debt held by over 323,000 federal student loan borrowers who are totally and permanently disabled
Seems pretty reasonable to me. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

Brave Caterpillar 08/20/21 (Fri) 05:18:11 No.9618

>>9616
Agreed.

I'd add that they likely should've expanded this to include everybody who's even just partly or temporarily disabled since the same situation (just plain not being able to make ends meet without help) applies too, with the bar being on the floor rather than being something to jump over by qualifying as "totally and permanently" disabled.

Admittedly, I guess, that might make disability fraud a bigger problem among con artists claiming to have temporary problems, but I think that it's actually extremely exaggerated. Same with the "welfare queen" stereotype. The clear, vast majority of people seeking assistance from the Department of Education who go through the trouble to fill out forms, talk to advisors, and the like are those who legitimately need help.

Dashing Spider 08/22/21 (Sun) 08:08:42 No.9633

>>9610
Wouldn't the first step be to curb the exorbitant price of college?

Textbook prices are absurd, especially when textbooks could realistically be free e-books or internet resources, and degree inflation cases this system to be evergreen. Schools are clearly corrupt to be demanding this much money. The first step is to clean up this college cabals. Once we cure the disease we can start worrying about the symptoms.

Whimsical Crab 08/22/21 (Sun) 09:57:04 No.9634

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>>9633
What are your thoughts on reducing college's demand for money?

Brave Caterpillar 08/22/21 (Sun) 20:49:55 No.9642

>>9633
The cure seems to be essentially already here in terms of free educational resources being widespread. The hiccup appears to me to be a failure of knowledgeable people in getting accreditation for what they've studied. Need to change government policies to allow for "open degrees".

Whimsical Crab 08/22/21 (Sun) 21:23:14 No.9643

>>9642
Most people basically believe the legitimate way to establish possession of industry related skill is through an accredited degree, most employers and organizations basically follow along, some going as far as saying it's a liability issue to do otherwise.

I mean, I disagree, at least in my field, but I'm pretty far from 'most people.'

The book argues for a state system to accredit people rather than delegating that power to colleges or universities. Or something like that, it's been awhile since I read it. Presumably the fees for state testing would be more reasonable.

Brave Caterpillar 08/22/21 (Sun) 22:57:44 No.9646

>>9643
>a state system to accredit people rather than delegating that power to colleges or universities

Yes, that will be extraordinarily difficult to get off the ground, but it would be a major improvement over the current system. Agreed.

Whimsical Crab 08/23/21 (Mon) 03:30:19 No.9670

>>9646
I feel like I'm a wee bit libertarian in the respect that I'd even go as far as to say not everything for which an accredited degree may be available from an American college or university needs state involvement. But perhaps I push too far.

Brave Caterpillar 08/23/21 (Mon) 03:59:11 No.9675

>>9670
In terms of education in general, it appears to me that the inherent nature of the process is complicated by systemic government regulation failure as well as market self-regulation failure at the same time. Thus, the problem has to be solved with proactive measures on both ends. I'd say that I'm sympathetic to libertarianism broadly, but I'd not be too radical here.

Whimsical Crab 08/23/21 (Mon) 04:47:17 No.9676

>>9675
>not be too radical here
That's fine. Personally I plan to program computers and do science without the need for explicit state permission. Well, maybe some art, as well, but not good art. Past that, I don't care too much.

Adorable Horse 08/25/21 (Wed) 07:42:29 No.9686

I paid my loans off just fine. After careful saving and some painful sacrifices I am debt free. It isn't as hard as millennials make it out to be.

Cancel them anyways. The entire system is predatory as fuck and many of those loans were made in bad faith, which has been made painfully obvious in recent years. That I managed to pay mine off changes nothing. I keep seeing people who are not me making this argument on my behalf that I somehow stand to lose something by seeing my friends out of a fucked situation.

Whimsical Crab 08/25/21 (Wed) 21:37:12 No.9688

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>>9686
Good job. I gather for most the only way to not pay the loans back is to die before sufficient payments are made. That's a risk the lender has to consider. If you were able to become free of debt while living with only some painful sacrifices that is good. Better than many painful sacrifices or dying, I guess.

Blushing Iguana 08/27/21 (Fri) 00:22:13 No.9690

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Student loans for economically near-worthless degrees are predatory and shouldn't be exempt from being discharged in bankruptcy proceedings.

Brave Caterpillar 08/27/21 (Fri) 03:31:40 No.9691

>>9686
What do you make of the political argument based something like "I don't want one single penny of my hard-earned income going to lazy slobs who aren't working as hard as they possibly can be, people who's debt reflects a moral failing compared to my own better moral compass"?

Adorable Horse 08/27/21 (Fri) 06:37:46 No.9692

>>9691
They can make that argument if they want to but don't pretend it's for my sake.

Thankful Dove 08/27/21 (Fri) 15:22:53 No.9695

>>9686
This.

College, in general, is worthless. Yet every institution insists, if you do not go, you will be a failure.

It's not as hard to pay your debts as some make it out, but it's also not necessarily hard to pay a con artist.

Given the state itself is the one pushing you into this debt more often than not, it's on them as much as the colleges themselves.

Whimsical Crab 08/27/21 (Fri) 21:07:02 No.9696

>>9695
>Yet every institution insists, if you do not go, you will be a failure.
Not every, but things nominally taught at state-accredited college or university will be skills, other abilities will not be. [Possibly some trade schools may teach a few skills as well.]