/townhall/ - Townhall

Eeeeh. My approach to people like that is basically apathy? I feel like getting mad over people you don't know thinking mean stuff is the exact same escalation as those people getting mad about somebody they don't know saying mean stuff.

>>16435
If it were just thoughts I'd be inclined to agree.
But a man is dead, shot right in front of his family, and this isn't the first time it's happened.

Even leaving aside the violence, these're the same types who'll try to ruin your life over a political view, or even worse, some out of context clip. They'll work tirelessly to try to ruin you for nothing more than a joke, even. Try to make you unemployable, a pariah, unable to even keep a home without constant harassment.

I used to be apathetic. My political view used to be "I don't care" as a core outlook, just ignoring it and doing as I will.
But the last few years've been continually showing, such a position in modern society is impossible. Doing nothing when someone strikes you just leaves you beat and abused on the floor, end of the day.

>>16437
Realistically though, nobody has struck me. I'm not a public figure or a celebrity so things impacting those folks really don't matter to me.

Not that these assholes don't exist, but I'm still more likely to win the lottery than be affected by any of them.

>>16438
You don't need to be.
Plenty of those doxxed with their employers harassed weren't. Shit, some folk were forced to be, by the actions of these types.
Count Dankula is the easiest example. Albeit that's in the UK, but, still, man made a stupid joke, and they tried to come down as hard as they possibly could on him. Couldn't get a normal job again over it. He's tried.

Though even leaving all that aside, saying "Well I probably won't face the consequences" is a pretty shoddy reason to ignore an obvious problem.

>>16434
A not so friendly reminder that two children got murdered by an antisemitic and anticatholic political extremist at a Catholic school in the U.S. Midwest, right before the current political debate that you're wallowing in, and as a baptized and confirmed Catholic individual of Jewish ancestry also from the U.S. Midwest I'm still mouring them.

I wish you guys could give 0.01% of the time, money, resources, and the like that you're spending now on this political dick-waving contest to these kids and their families. I know that you don't care. Not at all. Since it doesn't fit your narrative. But I so wish that you cared. Still.

We've had over twenty years of racially and religiously motivated violent extremism aimed at Americans now. Maybe this should stop. It would be nice.

>>16434
>>16440
And here's the young Jewish couple that got executed in front of the Jewish Museum in May before that other incident that I just mentioned. It would be nice if they deserved sympathy as well. It would nice if the inherent dignity and value of their lives received some respect.

I know that you don't care. And that nothing can make you care. But you should. You really should.

Those children could've been me, growing up. I could've been one of this couple too, right now. Yeah.

>>16440
>>16441
I agree those two instances are disgusting. I don't really get your point.
These aren't things perpetrated by the right.
The first one you reference was done by a transgender woman.
The second one, in turn, some far-lefty who chanted "Free Palestine" as he was taken away.

I would posit these are two great examples of what I am talking about.
How the left's rhetoric has resulted in more and more violence, which far too many cheer on.

>>16442
How are you so pathologically not able to understand that American racial and religious minorities, such as myself, are in severe danger of violent attack daily and have been for decades? And that it's getting worse and worse?

Why the fuck don't you care about our lives? What the fuck is wrong with your soul? With your mind?

Do you really not understand the damage that's done when I have to walk through a police escort to go into a synagogue? Into an LGBT community center? Into a Catholic church?

Why the fuck can't you have empathy for your fellow man?

You guys think that there are roving gangs of Jews, of gay people, of Catholics, of disabled people, and other minorities out to 'get you'. That we're trying to violently eliminate your families. That we're trying to kill your freedoms. That we're 'destroying America'. And so on.

We're not. We're just not. I know that you guys think that I killed Charlie Kirk in some sense, that American minorities are collectively responsible for this, and that there needs to be revenge upon me. Upon us.

It's just not true. And it's a horrifying kind of reversal. We're not killers. We're the ones GETTING FUCKING KILLED.(Please show civility and respect towards other users, towards their posts, and towards their threads;)

https://abc7chicago.com/post/chicago-antisemitism-hearing-today-jewish-leaders-speak-ahead-cchr-rising-threats-city/17771735/

This was literally just this Monday.

Another story that you guys have succeeded in burying, because it doesn't fit your narrative about evil minorities trying to destroy the American way of life.

https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-08-05/missouri-fire-being-investigated-as-antisemitic-hate-crime

And this just happened last month.

> is it even worth debating with people who want you destroyed, who will gleefully call for your death, who will clap when you are shot dead right in front of your family?

I think that is probably more worth debating than any other alternative.  Threats of death are right at the top of the list of things I would like to debate against.  Probably put at least some effort into voicing your opinion that you should not die.

https://www.kqed.org/news/12044922/man-charged-with-hate-crime-in-violent-attack-in-sfs-marina-district

This too.

But, of course, we racial and religious minorities are clearly the 'bad guys' who're trying to 'destroy America', I guess?

I'm going to ask the my own questions right back. This what I've wondered for literally years and years now:

With recent events in mind, is it even worth debating with people who want you destroyed, who will gleefully call for your death, who will clap when you are shot dead right in front of your family?

It's not as though this is a recent thing, of course. It's been happening for a while. But for the longest time, excuses have been made. A desire to 'deescalate', to keep some modicum of decorum and compassion, even in spite of such obvious cruelty.

That clearly hasn't worked.

Things have only escalated.

How do you hold a dialogue with people who despise you so much they will not even condemn open murder on those guilty of nothing?

Save being Jewish? Being gay? Being disabled? Being Catholic? Being something else that they find to be so repulsive due to their own ideological extremism?

Is the only solution to treat those who view you with hatred, regard you as their enemies, and long for your destruction, to hold the same view in return?

Individuals like the OP, like Charming Horse, want people like me dead. And there's nothing that I can really do about it. So, well, what now? Charlie Kirk's horrific assassination is an incident that's openly being used as an excuse by numerous individuals right now as justification for my death as well as many others 'for revenge'... I guess that's just it? I accept that fate is fate and destiny is destiny?

>>16440
>>16441
>>16444
>>16445
>>16447

So this is a big clump of references to a lot of other murders, which doesn't really count as a response to the OP.  Like I get that you are angry at the OP, I think that comes through, but these have nothing to do with the actual question, which is just a valid question to ask.  This is not a thread about whether actually people did deserve to get shot and die and whether it's okay to laugh at them.  That's not what we're talking about here.

>>16448

Here you've just literally posted the OP again, which again is built on this like false idea of what the thread is about?  The thread is not about attacking the OP, or explaining how the other side is also being murdered.  Really barring the interview video condeming "shit leftists" (which also doesn't belong on the board, getting to that one in a moment), the post is entirely neutral on who is posting it, and you could just answer in solidarity.  "I am also someone that people would murder and then laugh about, and here is what I would do about it."

>>16443

But this is the real crossed line.  After you posted two instances of murder, someone said "Yeah, that's fucked up, you shouldn't murder." and you just absolutely went off on them and called them out for lack of empathy.  Which is bizarre on its own, but even less appropriate for the board than the other posts, which could at least maybe be reasonable in some other hypothetical thread.

Also we can still tell who you are and you're still permabanned from the board, specifically because all of your posts are these dramatic rants against strawmen that had no board contextual trigger.

So...still banned, please stop posting.

>>16434

OP, I'm gonna leave the thread up because I think it's mostly reasonable, but in the future a video like that is not really appropriate for the board.  I can't seem to delete it, possibly because I'm an idiot, but just as a future warning videos like that are a bit more inciting than would be preferred on a debate board.  Body of the thread okay, video is excessively targeted and angry rather than informative or inquisitive.

>>16451
If I could snag a clip of just the first bit and not the latter gloating portion, it probably would've been better. Though alas, I've not the ability to edit videos so cleanly.
I think he does a good job of describing the issue I am speaking of, though. Especially with the bit on how far they'll go to outright ruin your life, do all they can to destroy you, whilst holding their own to a separate standard.

Though I can understand how the superficial aspect of emotive language would get in the way of that, and as said the later half is a bit gloaty.

>>16446
The alternative seems to come to pass regardless, as it currently stands, though.
That's the larger trouble.
That by engaging with these ideas and people, all that seems to result is an escalation in the attempt to destroy you.

To be fair, I don't know of a better method to combat it, bar calling out such behavior and labeling it evil... But I don't really see that changing it. I suppose the current bit of reversing the weapon of cancel culture is something. And maybe that's the solution. But debate itself doesn't seem to work, as fundamentally, you only seem to end up debating your own principles and values against those who will use it against you as a means to destroy you using them as a shield...

To be quite honest, my outlook on politics had gotten bleaker and bleaker as of late. This had only added to it.

There's so much hypocrisy coming from OP here it's ridiculous.

Like it's really disengenuous to act like having the freedom of expression implies protection from social consequences like being 'cancelled' on social media.

It's also disengenuous as hell to think there's no moral differences between political opinions or positions. There's a huge difference between 'In my opinion I think we need higher taxes on the top 10% of earners' and 'In my opinion all these people I'm afraid of should have fewer rights than me or be exterminated'. It's really fucking dishonest to pretend like those target aren't also feared as potential tyrants precisely because of those opinions

Also Tyler Robinson turned out to be a groyper. Charlie Kirk was murdered by someone who probably thought kirk wasn't extreme enough.

So OP can pretend to be neutral all they want but in the end it's just cowardly denial, as usual

>>16454
This is simply a lie. One that seems to have come about purely because of his race and gender, to be quite frank.
The rounds had explicitly anti fascist messages on them, and he's been described by those who knew him as left wing.

>>16453
>Like it's really disengenuous to act like having the freedom of expression implies protection from social consequences like being 'cancelled' on social media.
That's not at all what's being suggested.
Which makes this post all the more hillarious; you're trying to claim I am being dishonest and disingenuous, whilst fully engaging in exactly the same behavior, with no sense of the irony.

>There's a huge difference between 'In my opinion I think we need higher taxes on the top 10% of earners' and 'In my opinion all these people I'm afraid of should have fewer rights than me or be exterminated'.
Even if we assume that's actually the position held by Charlie Kirk (it isn't), that's still a mile away from something that ought justify outright murder.

But then you've already expressed your support for the killing, so it's no surprise you'd take this stance.
Fundamentally, you're exactly the type of person I was talking about in the OP.

>>16455
>That's not at all what's being suggested.
>Which makes this post all the more hillarious; you're trying to claim I am being dishonest and disingenuous, whilst fully engaging in exactly the same behavior, with no sense of the irony.

But it is what you're doing. You're passing them off as just 'opinions' and that they're targeted for without any reference to the content of those opiniins. It's playing dumb

>>16456
I am aware of this cheap deflection, yes.
These are not the markings I was referring to.
Good try, though. Well, not really, it's something that was pretty obviously debunked within a couple of hours, but, considering how little you have to work with in order to desperately pretend this guy's not actually one of yours following the same sort of rhetoric you espouse here on /townhall/ at a regular basis... I suppose it's about all you could do.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/charlie-kirk-shooting-suspect-fascism-memes-bullets-tyler-robinson-rcna230950

>>16457
>But it is what you're doing.
No, it's not.
I am not at all suggesting freedom of expression protects from social consequences.
That is obviously untrue.
It obviously doesn't.

There was a bit of decorum, of courtesy when such things were much more good-faith that such disagreements did not result in attacks to one's personal life which has nothing to do with one's political views. But even then, that's not a matter of 'protection'.

But of course, you know all this. This is why I rightly call you dishonest here.
Not that it will matter. To you, I am an enemy that needs destroying.

>You're passing them off as just 'opinions' and that they're targeted for without any reference to the content of those opiniins.
I am passing them off as opinions... which you directly admit in this very sentence are, indeed, opinions...

This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.
Is there any point at all in this debate?
Is it even slightly productive?
It's just perpetual dishonesty, obfuscation, and dodging around, because at the end of the day, all that matters to you is the destruction of an enemy...

>>16455

>Even if we assume that's actually the position held by Charlie Kirk (it isn't), that's still a mile away from something that ought justify outright murder.

Not too far from what he believed and what he advocated for.

But, the point I was making was following my previous one in this thread and many many many other threads on this board is that it's disengenuous, as in, 'playing dumb' to act like there is no qualitative differences between political opinions and their logical implications.

And again, it doesn't justify the murder, but acting like it's at all surprising that people whose most basic rights are being advocated against by the right would in turn defend themselves with violence. That it's illegal or wrong isn't going to stop that sort of thing, especially right now when you've got an administration that doesn't seem to give a shit about the constitution that guarantees those rights or any of the checks on power written into that constitution. As an American raised in a conservative family in Texas to revere heroes who used violence to win and protect those rights, I'm personally willing to shed blood to keep those rights, I'm sure a lot of political violence is rooted in that attitude for a lot of Americans. It's kinda pathetic to be an American and pretend like that violence isn't a deeply rooted part of our culture and mythology. People like you are just too cowardly to acknowledge that fact in situations like this but probably would embrace violence to fight off a radical leftist takeover.

>>16459
I am aware that dishonest people've taken a number of out-of-context snippets, and ran with them.
It's pretty scummy, but, as I said, it's pretty much standard practice from the left.

>' to act like there is no qualitative differences between political opinions and their logical implications.
Nobody's doing that.

>, but acting like it's at all surprising that people whose most basic rights are being advocated against by the right would in turn defend themselves with violence.
The difference between the left and the right in this regard is, the left will murder you for simply speaking a viewpoint.
The right will simply state that when you try, they will defend themselves.

A favorite line is "Come and try" from the 2A community. "Shut up and stack up" is another good one. The simple meaning being rather obvious; When you try, we will shoot your doorkickers.
We won't shoot you simply for saying "We should forcibly remove your right to defend yourself".

The left doesn't wait. And worse still, they act on absurd disingenuous fabrications as we see within your image; Things other people claim about us. Not our actual beliefs.

If we simply went off of what people like yourself assume about me, given the myriad of things said, it would be "no surprise" if say Elegant Duck showed up to my house tomorrow with a revolver and shot me in the gut.
But the irony at play here is, I am about as die-hard on rights as one can get. Yet, the narrative amongst those on the left here is, I am sat right next to Adolf Hitler.
In this very thread, Squid has expressed a "wrongness" with my very soul, that I don't care about the lives of jews, and that I explicitly want them dead. Them, personally, at that, not even a nebulous generalized group.

When the left freely makes up narratives about their enemies, fabricating whole-cloth a set of ideals and beliefs those enemies never in fact held, it seems to me most anyone would fit that "unsurprising" result of some lunatic shooting them dead.

>>16459
>"He ... endorsed having [gay people] put to death" (from the image)
ChatGPT looked and found no credible evidence for that.  And moreover, it found the likely source of that claim and showed why it is mistaken: Kirk was quoting without endorsement a verse from Leviticus, in order to argue how the Bible is quoted selectively (“cherry-picking”).

See also: https://www.factcheck.org/2025/09/viral-claims-about-charlie-kirks-words/

https://youtu.be/rKQ1Y8-j2lE?si=_zqHamTiXKUHNtor

>>16458
>>16460
>Nobody's doing that.

Yes, you are like right in this post and in the OP. You keeps framing it as just opinions.

You can scream about people reacting with violence over opinions all day but it's not going to change that if the content of that opinion is advocating for stripping rights or citizenship or someone's right to vote, it's going to attract violence eventually, especially when people are scared.

It's fucking disgusting how much you right-wing narcissist are just in denial of that fact. Of all facts you're in denial of about how people work apparently.

You buy into this childish narrative that one side is always good and the otherside always evil. Cowardly refusing to acknowledge that a lot of people are really fucking scared about the possibility that Trump will try and strip their civil rights or one of Trump's supporters will attack or kill them or try to turn them into ICE even if they're not an immigrant.

MAGA is too fucking cowardly to acknowledge that they come off as would be tyrants to a lot of Americans and play the fucking victim over that rather than engaging in serious introspection.

>>16463
>You keeps framing it as just opinions.
Again; You yourself explicitly stated it was opinions.

I understand you disagree with the content of the opinions, but that doesn't change the fact they're opinions - not actions.

>It's fucking disgusting how much you right-wing narcissist are just in denial of that fact.
I haven't denied any fact at play here.
I fully agree with you that the left have been radicalized to the point they will straight up murder you in front of your children over opinions.

>You buy into this childish narrative that one side is always good and the otherside always evil
The irony here is, for a damn long time, I didn't.
It was the constant rhetoric from people like yourself, who insist I am some kind of monster, and give perpetual excuses when those like me are destroyed or outright killed, that made me realize that 'good faith' I had clinged to was long since gone.

Even then, "evil" and "misguided" are different things. Albeit, I consider the actions rather obviously evil.

>Cowardly refusing to acknowledge that a lot of people are really fucking scared
Paranoia because of the left wing narrative radicalizing people to violence is the problem.
I am not refusing to acknowledge that fear the left've cultivated.
I am well aware of it.
I am simply in opposition to it, and likewise regard those who'd commit violence over opinions as the lowest of the lowest scum.

> or one of Trump's supporters will attack or kill them
A threat that only increases when you murder in cold blood a man who tries to TALK to you.

>MAGA is too fucking cowardly to acknowledge that they come off as would be tyrants to a lot of Americans
Again; I am well aware of the left's narrative.
I am well aware how the left's narratives would shape view.

I have already pointed to how people, here, in this very thread view me.

I am sure some people here, on this very website, because of those narratives would be 'afraid' of me.
They may even seek violence on me.
To be frank, it is why I would never, ever, post any kind of personal information on this site.

I just do not think that is right, in any way, shape, or form.
I think that is a horrible, horrible thing.