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 No.16068

File: 1750492593759.png (450.23 KB, 1162x654, 581:327, republicanattacks.png) ImgOps Google

...looks like republicans have begun their attack on students. I had been holding out that they might actually help students, especially ones who do well in school by increasing federal student aid and tying it to grades (a sensible conservative position), but they did the opposite.

In short, house republicans wanted to cut the Pell grant for people paying by the credit-hour by increasing the course workload for full Pell grant eligibility from 12 to 15 credit hours, but the senate has rejected the change. They also wanted to reduce the aggregate student loan limit from $57,500 to $50,000 for undergraduates, despite it hasn't been increased in 20 years and there is such a thing as inflation, which devalues that amount.

If you want to get a Master's (becoming a standard requirement for jobs, nowadays), your aggregate loan limit will be drastically reduced from $147,500 to $100,000 (undergraduate loans included) -- so, really if you max out undergrad loans a decrease from $90,000 to $42,500. As Master's programs are more expensive and the Pell grant can't be applied to them, the cut will price people out of everything but the cheapest, lowest-quality, likely online-only schools.

In addition, loans will now be pro-rated, the same as Pell grants currently are, based on part or full-time enrollment. So, if I'm understanding it correctly, you will only get half of your needed living expenses if you only attend part-time -- making it harder to be a student.

Lastly, Grad PLUS loans will be eliminated, which were loans that you could apply for if you were pursuing a Master's degree and your credit wasn't too awful, to help finish paying for college if you max out your other loans.

People entering law school would still have a $200k aggregate student loan limit, so if you want to be a student as long as possible, that might be a path if you can find a cheap online law school.

That having been said, there are still some fairly-easy online-only schools one can find and attend. But as for ever attending a nice college to get your Master's if you're from a middle or working-class family -- don't see how it would be possible, anymore, with these changes.

I expect that Republicans will continue to attack the working, middle-class, and poor so long as they are in power. As the divide between rich and poor increases, and the middle class disappears, recommended financial strategies include either 1) become an engineer, if possible; and/or 2) learn and get on the social safety net system before they take the rest of it away (while finding a low-stress, low-skill job that you don't care about) and not waste any more of your time trying to ascend the collapsing corporatist/capitalist system.

https://www.nasfaa.org/news-item/36533/Cassidy_Unveils_Senate_s_Education_Portion_of_Reconciliation

 No.16070

>>16068
...forgot to mention the Pell grant cut the house wanted might not seem like much, but it would cause tuition to go from $0 or close to $0 up to $3,000/year for some people. And with loans being tied to part or full-time status, that would mean a reduction from receiving $11,000/year in living expenses down to receiving just $3,000/year for living expenses for a part-time student at a college in which the Pell almost covers all of the tuition. ...but with the Pell cut seeming to not being going through, the reduction would be to receiving only $5,500/year in living expenses for a part-time student, or $458/mo. -- very low indeed, hence above advice

 No.16071

Well, you don't need to hand out grants if you make higher education cheap and readily accessible.

Which is no doubt on the top of the Republican to do list.
Right?

> in b4 college is a scam and we need to get rid of it

 No.16072

>>16068
College is a massive scam anyway, and is honestly so expensive in large part to favorable loans like these to begin with anyways.
So, honestly, I couldn't care less.

 No.16073

File: 1750538238318.jpg (10.73 KB, 300x168, 25:14, crystalponiesenslaved.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>16071
I haven't seen anything in the news about colleges lowering their prices. But I guess we just have to believe.

>>16072
I haven't seen anything in the news about companies switching to a hiring system which excludes consideration of college degrees from its hiring process. Furthermore, even without colleges providing learning, if we take the autodidact approach, there would still be the problem of paying for living expenses while one studies on their own (to pass hypothetical skills tests given by companies), which I haven't seen addressed, either. Nor have I seen anything in the news about companies hiring based on GPA and deciding to cover the cost of living expenses of new hires while they learn how the company works -- or working with people who need to ease into a work environment. I guess we just have to believe ...in Trump or Jesus -- I'm not sure which. --probably Jesus (since I doubt any of the above will ever happen so long as Republicans remain in power) although I doubt many of the people making these laws really do.

Sure, a few companies seem to be doing these things, but it's the same story as how private scholarships were in high school -- unless you're truly exceptional (in the top 5% with an extensive social network and devoting all your time to "leveling up"), you're not going to get hired or helped. If you're a normal person, however, whose only talents are sincerity, showing up, and doing a good job, that's now an exclusion criteria without these grants and loans. i.e.: Meritocracy and social mobility are being sold off, so best to strategize how to operate under the new system, as this may continue to be the case for a while...

 No.16074

>>16073
>I haven't seen anything in the news about companies switching to a hiring system which excludes consideration of college degrees from its hiring process.
I didn't suggest they have.
But it isn't anywhere near as valuable as it used to be.
It's no guarantee at all you'll get a job. If anything, it's the baseline.
Hell, at this stage, I'd wager more frycooks have a degree than don't.

 No.16084

The blank check system of funding higher education is the whole reason it's so expensive in the first place.

 No.16087

File: 1750578175913.png (212.79 KB, 706x1024, 353:512, gabbygums.png) ImgOps Google

>>16074
>>16084

Unfortunately, pretending to attack the root cause of the problem and taking away opportunity from the middle, working, and lower classes while simultaneously doing nothing to help these citizens (such as restructuring it around a meritocratic framework, or changing hiring rules, etc.) who rely on these systems in order to live and advance in society, while giving immediate tax cuts to the rich, shows where Republican loyalties lie.

Republicans are literally Gabby Gums.

 No.16089

>>16087
If you want a society imposed by decree from the top down, maybe you should move to China, instead of complaining about how the disparate parts of independent systems that aren't under government control don't magically comport themselves to your liking.

 No.16093

>>16089

We already live in such a society. The only difference between the U.S. and China is that the U.S. is still being propped up to a good extent by exploitative capitalism and the elite have to do more work to convince the people to vote for policies that benefit the elite, while thinking that the policies benefit themselves....

China, however, was a little late to the exploitative capitalism trade -- but what they lack in having acquired through exploitative capitalism, they have made up through exploiting their culture and religions -- infusing them with the desires of the elite.

 No.16094

>>16093
No one is going to change hiring rules in a ridiculously skewed buyer's market because the supply is so far beyond demand, much less out of the goodness of their hearts or some far-fetched duty to class solidarity or some other such idiocy. This has nothing to do with capitalism; it applies just as soundly to American systems that do not rely on capital. The overinflated education system allows itself to be used as a proxy for other types of discrimination that are forbidden by law. The solution to this is not to further inflate the largely useless post-secondary education system, which for 70%+ of Americans provides no benefit whatsoever.

 No.16100

File: 1750613374099.png (821.01 KB, 1221x373, 1221:373, Dlibert-Teaches-'Capitalis….png) ImgOps Google

>>16068
I was two-years-old when the cartoon character Dilbert appeared in this famous comic strip.

It's been over thirty years.

And not only is this just as correct right now and just as funny right now compared to how it was back then, but things have gotten worse in terms of American capitalism.

Also, honestly, artist Scott Adams deserves something like a Pulitzer for his accuracy in predicting the future. This is equally as good as Jules Verne predicting the Apollo landings on the Moon. I'm dead serious.

 No.16128

>>16087
The thing is, though, college doesn't help you advance or live. In fact it makes it much harder to. For both aspects.

Locking people into debt slavery is not a healthy thing.

>tax cuts for the rich
I mean I've noticed it, and I'm nowhere near rich. But I guess.
I've not really got an issue with the state taking less money from the people.

 No.16131

>>16128
>Locking people into debt slavery is not a healthy thing.

Has it really never occurred to you that you could live in a country that either a)doesn't have a capitalist economy in the first place (so that such a thing would be illegal) or b)live in a country with a capitalist economy that doesn't go off the deep end into bloodthirsty far-right extremism but instead has centrist, moderate, and pragmatic regulations (so that such a thing would be illegal)?

Just saying.

Debt slavery is one of those social things like thirteen-year-old children being married off to adult men or such that occur a result of having government systemically fail in upholding basic civilization, like it's not an inherent thing that must exist automatically as long as humans are alive.

 No.16132

>>16131
>doesn't have a capitalist economy in the first place
Like what country? China?
I'd rather not have the state barricade my front door and leave me to starve to death over a virus, actually, thank you.

>live in a country with a capitalist economy
Even leaving aside that most of them still require expensive colleges, at that point you're also landing absolutely absurd taxation rates throughout Europe.
As I do not want >50% of my income taxed, I do not want to live in such places.

 No.16133

>>16132
Are you really pathologically incapable of understanding that there are over two-hundred countries on the Earth with dramatically different economic policies and you can actually have a capitalist economy without debt slavery?

It's like how you can be a Christian without wanting to burn gay people in giant piles of wood or be a Muslim without carrying your own personal sword for chopping off heads as quickly as possible.

 No.16134

>>16133
I very clearly acknowledged the existence of a number of countries without that issue, but with other ones.
You did not bother to read my post. As usual.

 No.16135

>>16134
Just. Don't. Have. Debt. Slavery. Be. Legal.

I don't get why you see that as evil socialism or something else that can't happen or else your precious, precious capitalist purity is harmed.

 No.16137

>>16131
Debt slavery predates capitalism, retard.

 No.16142

File: 1750636692031.jpg (241.58 KB, 1024x1024, 1:1, princessluna.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>16100
Then divert the money to set up a better school system, such as ones that study philosophy, spirituality, friendship...; Republicans are just pretending to be doing something to address the issue without actually doing anything -- and hurting the average citizen in the process.

>>16100
Good one. Rocko's Modern Life was also funny.

>>16128
>college doesn't help you advance or live
Regardless of who is doing the teaching, citizens engaged in learning must receive money for living expenses, otherwise, they cannot advance. This is even more true now, as corporatism/capitalism begins to run out of things to exploit.

>Locking people into debt slavery is not a healthy thing.
Hence, why student loans have such favorable terms. Paying 10% of your discretionary income on a loan with no or very little interest is a very good deal compared to the value you might get from it. Debt slavery is paying a 35% interest rate (not including fees) on multiple credit cards in order to be able to live. Getting a loan for an education with a high return on investment is just a good investment, not debt slavery. Without the Pell grant and student loans, only the upper middle-class (people with assets, like a home, a college fund for their kids, and a little extra money in the bank (like what an engineer would probably have -- and far from the rich and super-rich) can ever expect to have a chance to get into the club. So, the upper middle class becomes the new middle class, and the old middle class becomes the new working and poor classes, with no prospect for advancement for anyone not already part of the new middle class.

>I mean I've noticed it, and I'm nowhere near rich. But I guess.
Sure, I guess. Except it's disproportional to a degree that most people don't understand.

>I've not really got an issue with the state taking less money from the people.
Sure, I guess. Unless you stop to consider that the rich have basically become the state.

 No.16145

>>16135
I don't get why you think I'm in favor of debt slavery, considering I'm the one that brought it up in the first place.

But then, I've stopped expecting logical consistency from your type.
Mindless tribalism is your preference.

 No.16146

>>16142
>with a high return on investment
Which hasn't been the case for years.
Yes. That was my point.

 No.16148

>>16146
There are plenty of studies which say that they still have a good return on investment, especially in STEM fields. In addition, just because the return on investment is declining slightly, it's no reason to pre-emptively punish students (who were promised the house, wife, pension and little american flag to wave at the barbecue if they did good in school) through legislation, unless perhaps you happen to be a billionaire who happens to have no further use for the remaining cultural capital of your society and is therefore more interested in turning everyone into worker drones to help protect their wealth than in improving society as a whole.

 No.16149

>>16148
Or I could look at this much as I did for Obamacare and notice how prices skyrocketed when the state started handing out credit with great terms.

That ending, I just can't really bring myself to care about.
And i don't really buy the claim that there's a good return in the modern context anyways.
Seems to me from most folk I've talked to, college degrees are for working fast food these days.


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