/townhall/ - Townhall

Society is filled up to the rim with braindead idiots and the next time something really bad happens, we are dead.

I guess we finally have a conspiracy theory more desperate than "jet fuel can't melt steel beams"

>>13641

You're right, the goverment would never make viruses that could harm people. Never ever ever.

>>13642
You gave me a screencap of somebody's fanfiction. I don't have a whole lot to work with.

I think much of the world reacted reasonably. Americans however ... we reacted with a pathetic number of wounded egos and spineless denial, which is what all these stupidly improbable conspiracy theories serve to validate, and which further disillusioned me about my fellow Americans moral priorities.

And considering I lost my mother in the pandemic while nearly losing three other family members because they lived in a red state where a huge chunk of people refused to even acknowledge it was really happening and refusing to take even the most minimal precautions, It pushed me over the edge into pure hatred and disgust for my homestate. Especially since at the core of all denial of it even happening is petty fucking political tribalism, and pants-shitting terror at facing the possibility that maybe their black and white world view of either total individualism or total collectivism is untenable and unrealistic in the face of natural disasters, hence this allure of some bullshit "gain of function research" conspiracy theories that serve to deny that something that has been happening naturally throughout all of human history could ever naturally happen again and remind them why some degree of collectivism is necessary for every individuals interest in survival.

>>13644
Not only in the US

Locally as well, there have been death threats against medical health workers and virologists in the height of the pandemic and still groups have been prolifically calling for the arrest and incarceration of the lead virologists who have been in the media the most.

>>13645

Well wherever they are, death would be too merciful for them as far as I am concerned.

The fact that [i[really fucking minor[/i] things like keeping a distance or wearing a mask to slow the potential spread of the disease were treated like the equivalent of living in a concentration camp came off as really really fucking childish and entitled. The right wing came off as disgustedly hypocritical as the people saying that people on the left or who's progressive are the real spoiled children.

And given that attitude nearly killed off more than half my family in Texas (and left some permanently disabled), I'm not going to have any sympathy or respect for it post covid. Not in real life, nor here on ponyville.

I'm disappointed that it didn't kill all the antimaskers and antivaxxers. And also all the people who were like 'umm ACKSHUALLY we should wear masks for EVERYTHING'. Bitch I wear glasses and I like being able to see, I'll just stay home when I'm ill like any sane person not being manipulated by capitalists (i.e. having to work while sick).

Aside from that I have no strong feelings on it and would like to go back to gleefully pretending it never happened.

It proved that anything can be a culture war issue no matter how banal.

It showed the massive flaws we have in both medicine and education but again culture war issue so why fix them when blaming the gays and immigrants is easier.

Also the rise of contrarians online. Like I get it you are lonely and any attention is good, but shut the fuck up.

>>13639
A disaster of the highest order.
It does have benefits, though; it helped show people the dangers of trusting the state.

They told us there would be no lock downs.
Then they told us it'd only be for a few weeks.
Then they said it was just long enough to flatten the curve.
Then, until they found a vaccine.
Then, it continued more.

Livelihoods ruined, families disrupted, and dreams murdered. For what?
The net result was a whole lot of nothing.

>>13641
Pretty much all of this has been confirmed, though?
Have you not been paying attention to the recent reports and discussions in congress?

The lab leak theory has quickly become the most likely one, with gain-of-function research taking place at the lab in Wuhan.
So what makes it some crazy crackpot theory, at this stage?

>>13644
You realize that the CDC has confirmed that the masks did nothing, right?

And that the vaccines were functionally worthless, in the best case, with limited efficacy now its revealed and no lowering of transmission?

Is it perhaps the lack of forcing businesses to shut down, ensuring everyone has to go into a limited number of packed supermarkets that were already hotbeds of illnesses, instead?

>hence this allure of some bullshit "gain of function research" conspiracy theories
The absolute irony on display of you complaining about tribalism while displaying this so fragrantly.

You've not bothered to do any of the research yourself you've not bothered to look into this matter and you certainly not bother to look into the numerous aspects of evidence suggesting that in fact this did both take place at and leak from the Wuhan lab.
Why?

Because it would make your political side look bad.
That is your sole reason.
You are the single most tribalistic person I have seen on this site. Every single one of your posts are like this. Every single time you post you say the most tribalistic things I've ever seen on the damn planet.
And whenever anybody calls you out on it all you ever do is insult them or run away.

>>13646

https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2023/2/8/23591132/cdc-exaggerated-evidence-supporting-mask-mandates-column-jacob-sullum

>"B-BUH-BUT DA RITE R TRIBALISTICCC!11!!! D-DAY DESERVE WORST THAN DETH FOR DAT!!!111!!!"

It really goes to show exactly how disgusting and disgraceful the left are. Tribalistic brutes who would absolutely line you against the wall and shoot you if they were ever giving an ounce of power

I hope brave men and women continue to oppose thugs and cooks like yourself. "Deserve"...  You are genuinely a disgusting piece of shit.
Unlike you I will advocate for your fucking death. Nor for some other unexplained tormen Unlike you I have the civility not to claim you deserve shit.
Unlike you I am not a tribalistic psychopath who would hate their fellow man simply for a simple disagreement of politics.

>>13647
Lost the post so I have to rewrite this, but it is probably for the best.
I shouldn't let scum as yourself on the internet expressing how they wish more people would die or the horrific crime of not trusting an untested vaccine, Or listening to the CDC about the efficacy on masks...

It really is a bleak time that we live in where this is a commonplace view. That because folk didn't have the audacity to bend over backwards and do whatever the state declared, they deserve death or worse.
It's truly disgusting and it gives me a very bleak views of the world. Especially in this country. I can only hope we face some kind of balconization in the near future rather than have the inevitable collapse that will lead to a bloody conflict because of people like yourself who are so willing to cast aside the humanity of their own fellow man.

I would highly suggest you do some research for yourself instead of blindly trusting the narrative of partisan hacks.
As a general rule I would suggest those who have to resort to censorship in order to silence those who would disagree with them are typically not those you ought to trust.
But I know it will fall on death ears given your evident mindset.

>>13652

My favorite part of all of this was when the lockdowns happened and you had people setting up entire groups online be it on Facebook, Reddit wherever to snitch on and try and get their so called ""friends"" and neighbors fined or even arrested for so much as going for a walk outside without a mask

Of course they now pretend this never happened but I remember seeing them. If anything it showed me just how paranoid and crazy people can get.. But worse than that it showed me that people will blindly worship and support the goverment and all their rules regardless of how crazy they get just beacause someone told them "it's the moraly right thing to do so do it or you'll be a bad person and you don't want everyone thinking you're a wrong thinker do you?"

Hell we famously hard certain parts of the world that rewarded people for snitching on their friends.

Honestly Lockdowns and covid rules were pretty much the perfect social experiment. You could write entire books and reports on it.

Rather reminds me of that famous experiment where that company brought people in to electricute and torture people for no reason what so ever and the majority of people agreed to do just beacause the set up and people running the experiment seemed to be offical and working for the goverment, and even after they tortured innocent people for no reason they could not explain it and were just all

"Well um it was what I was told to do so.. uh.."

TLDR; People are weird. Interesting, but very weird.

>>13654
Still burns my blood. I knew people who basically lost everything because of this shit. Some who had to figure out a new place to live, because suddenly rent couldn't be made. Some who just lost their job entirely as a business couldn't survive year-long lockdown.
It's wild to see the lack of sympathy. And that's to say nothing of the people who don't want to do some trivial thing the TV says.

I lost friends over it. Had them repeat the same disgusting rhetoric we see here. Telling me that my family deserve death, hoping they get ill and die, because they don't support an extreme state overreach.
The early days around that were wild. It wasn't just a case of if you don't wear a mask or don't trust a new untested vaccine. No, just saying "Hey, maybe the state shouldn't be given these powers" was enough to get some insane vitriol...

The vaccine stuff honestly was getting scary. I'm glad it didn't last, but, even my job was pressuring it. My sister lost hers. A job she was training for years to do, at shit pay with the explicit promise of this position...
When she pointed out it wasn't even a requirement in the contract, they sent her a new one, specifically because of her.
Still think she has room to sue for that...

>>13639

In response to the image:  Why wouldn't both of those theories be compatible?  Also I don't think I ever heard anyone on either side of the aisle arguing that it didn't come from Wuhan, and only a minimal number of people briefly suggesting it didn't come from a lab.  The question was always whether the lab leak was accidental because people can be kinda dumb and lazy, or if it was on purpose because people are evil and conspiratorial.  Which arguably is still not fully answered, but "Chinese citizens are actively trying to kill us" is the only part of that which was ever deemed racist, especially after people started lashing out at people who looked vaguely asian.

As for how the world reacted, it was a pretty pathetic display.  People acting like the world was ending and hoarding toilet paper were just as ridiculous as the people ranting about the government spreading it through 5G radio towers.  Origin of the virus aside, ultimately what we had was a nasty flu that took a hot minute to develop a vaccine for, but we eventually did and then things opened back up and now the virus is....at least as under control as the normal flu.

>>13651
>You are the single most tribalistic person I have seen on this site.

Oh, no, there's at least one other more notable person.

>>13654

A lot of people are surprisingly ready to listen to authority without judgement of what's going on.  Politics is the struggle to get those people to vote for you.  That's a thread all on its own, though.

And that isn't to say I disagreed with authority in this particular case.  The asks seemed very light overall.  There unquestionably wasn't enough of a safety net in place for the people more heavily impacted, and I'm not here to place blame on whose fault that is, either.  We were collectively placed between a variety of choices, all of which would result in heavy losses.  Most likely, more should have been done in general to mitigate the damage.

>>13656
>and only a minimal number of people briefly suggesting it didn't come from a lab.
I'd need to know what you mean by that to really say, but at the very least, it was directly opposed in mainstream channels.
If memory serves, lab leak theories got censored by a number of places like YouTube for 'misinformation'. And certainly, the MSM reinforced that idea, that it has to be from natural sources and lab theories are just crackpot theories.

I will agree, though, that people who engaged with actual information around the subject knew pretty early, and had the dialogue you're describing. But, it just wasn't really, I suppose, 'allowed' in the common channels til relatively recently.

>>13651
>>13652

Jesus fucking christ dude. How was wearing a mask for the sake of taking precaution such a horrible ask? How does that make any goddamn sense!? Why didn't the point of mask mandates matter at all? How could taking precautions when so much was still unknown be so unreasonable when it was literally such a minor annoyance? How much of a goddamn selfish asshole are you that whatever annoyance or subjective symbolic meaning you invested in masking is more important than taking precaution for the sake of others? What the fuck does that say about you and people like you?

How can it be so hard to accept that Trump fucked up when he dismantled the pandemic response team a couple years earlier? Incompetence is a far more probable explanation for why any of this happened in the first place. Instead you engage in this Alex Jones bullshit of clinging to wildly improbable conspiracy theories that just so happen to absolve Trump of any fault in this.

And while we are on the subject can I point out the recent news that the CIA and US goverment ran secret operations to try and claim Chinese vaccines didn't work and spread anti vax propoganda across the world just to

A- Try and get revenge on China as some Chinese officials claimed the virus was American

and

B- To try and boost sales of American vaccines to make themselves richer

I know I should not be surprised and all but man, fuck the CIA I swear they're just a gang that do whatever the fuck they want beacause

"Guys it's for the greater good so what if we flooded poor black areas with crack it's for your own good! And that time hired thousands of nazis just after world war 2? I mean, they helped us so.. And yes we tested LSD on you American people just to see what would happen but hey, we are the good guys we swear! And yes we planned to bomb Flordia and kill thousands but like, we had to blame Cuba for something besides JFK turned that plan of ours down.. And then he died haha whoops what a shame"

>>13658
>Jesus fucking christ dude. How was wearing a mask for the sake of taking precaution such a horrible ask?
Again; These masks did fuck and all.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-work.html

Which is something just about anyone who knows how these things work could've told you.
They aren't designed for continual use, and having your breathing restricted isn't much aid to your immune system besides.

The 'precaution' does nothing. It's not helping, it was purely performative, and used as an unfortunate excuse to harass and ostracize those who've got medical issues for which having something constantly blocking their breathing is a major issue.

>Why didn't the point of mask mandates matter at all?
Because the facts have come out showing it did nothing, and was little more than fearmongering from the state.

They had no point. The logic behind it was flawed, and worse, this was known ahead of time.
https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703

>How can it be so hard to accept that Trump fucked up when he dismantled the pandemic response team a couple years earlier?
I never even said shit about that, you dishonest disingenuous pile of human garbage.
I'll agree that it's a good idea to keep people around who's job it is to investigate and respond to these kinds of diseases.

I never suggested anything to the contrary.
You only assumed I would because you're a tribal-minded cultist who views anyone who disagrees with you as evil and deserving a fate worse than death.

>Instead you engage in this Alex Jones bullshit of clinging to wildly improbable conspiracy theories that just so happen to absolve Trump of any fault in this.
What conspiracy theory?
Nothing I've stated is a conspiracy theory.
The lab leak theory is all but confirmed by the experts now, and was only ever denied by partisans as a possibility.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64806903

Are you telling me that the BCC, CNN, and the New York Times're all engaged in "Alex Jones bullshit conspiracy theories"?
Really?

>>13659
The CIA should be abolished. At absolute best, they're an organization with questionable efficacy. Fat more likely they're their own gang, content to trade in drugs, murder, and commit atrocities, provided it lines their own pocket books.

>>13660
>The 'precaution' does nothing. It's not helping, it was purely performative, and used as an unfortunate excuse to harass and ostracize those who've got medical issues for which having something constantly blocking their breathing is a major issue.

This doesn't logically follow the research in 2023, how the fuck does that imply this was 'all performative'? They didn't even agree if masking was effective at the beginning of the pandemic, so they erred on the side of caution. Your 'logic' here is just fucking grasping at straws. And it doesn't change the fact that the mere annoyance of having to wear a mask in public spaces, for the sake caution that you might be inadvertently spreading it, especially for the sake of those most vulnerable who had the very breathing problems you mentioned, was somehow too much of an ask for people like you. No one was commanding everyone to use them continuously, only in indoor public spaces, not outside, not in your home. That anyone would grasp at straws this desperately to play victim over this is fucking disgusting.

>>13660
>Are you telling me that the BCC, CNN, and the New York Times're all engaged in "Alex Jones bullshit conspiracy theories"?
>Really?

No, but you are, did you even fucking read these articles?

>>13662
>This doesn't logically follow the research in 2023, how the fuck does that imply this was 'all performative'?
Because the research shows the opposite.
Something that was certainly within the capacity for understanding, especially by people who've worked in the field or been around these masks in the first place.
Ultimately, it was hyped up with little backing. A means to give distraction and comfort to the masses. Little better than instructing people to hang garlic on their door to stop the evil spirits from coming in.

>They didn't even agree if masking was effective at the beginning of the pandemic,
You're right. The advice bounced back and forth at the time. Sometimes the narrative'd be that you don't need masks, and then, suddenly, it turned right around when convenient.

It's almost like following narratives mindlessly is a bad idea. That the powers that be will absolutely lie to you, just for the sake of convenience.

> especially for the sake of those most vulnerable who had the very breathing problems you mentioned
Who once again got harassed by scumbags like yourself, screaming and yelling at them for having the audacity not to wear something that harms their breathing and puts them at greater risks...

I've no qualms with wearing a mask voluntarily if you feel like it.
Nor do I disagree it's a good idea to do so when you're ill. Though I'd prefer you just stay home, if ill.
But we aren't talking about that. We're talking about mandates enforced through state powers, social ostricization, and the loss of one's job, universally regardless of circumstances.

And for what?
As it turns out, and certainly there was cause to understand beforehand, fuck and all.
The masks didn't work.
Why on earth is it wrong to want for evidence that the thing you were explicitly told DOESN'T help suddenly does?
Should I be wearing a tin foil hat because the junkie down the street thinks it'll keep the mind control aliens at bay?

>No, but you are, did you even fucking read these articles?
Sure I did. They clearly state the lab leak theory is likely, contrary to your brainless,  idiotic, tribalistic narrative that any suggestion of the sort is "Alex Jones bullshit conspiracy theory".

Or are you trying to move the goalposts now? Are you saying now, "oh, n-no, it-it's not that, i-i-it's if you think it was INTENTIONAL", which I certainly never fucking said, and wasn't alleged in the picture besides.

Ah, but, who am I kidding. I deserve a fate worse than death, right?
So why should I be expecting intellectual honesty from you.
It doesn't matter what the truth is. You don't give a shit. You just want me lined up against a wall and shot.

>>13657

I suppose I'm not engaged enough with mainstream channels to even know what is or isn't banned on YouTube.

>>13661

Without the CIA they'd just have other groups do the same shit.

>>13663
> Who once again got harassed by scumbags like yourself, screaming and yelling at them for having the audacity not to wear something that harms their breathing and puts them at greater risks...

lol

>>13665
If you think it's just hyperbole, I'd advise reading over >>13646
>"Well wherever they are, death would be too merciful for them as far as I am concerned. "
As well as posts like >>13647
>"I'm disappointed that it didn't kill all the antimaskers and antivaxxers. "

This was a common fare leveled at folk throughout those days.
I don't much like leaning into personal fares, but I certainly experienced it.
I have breathing issues. And it's not like people can tell at a glance. So you get nasty words from folk, shouting confrontations, stores deny service, even get hassled by employers.

As Iguana said, people'll blindly follow authority at times, regardless of circumstances, with the presumption it's all inherently 'good'.
Folk'll excuse some horrible actions, because someone in a position of power told them they're good and the other guy's bad.

>>13666
> As Iguana said, people'll blindly follow authority at times, regardless of circumstances, with the presumption it's all inherently 'good'.
> Folk'll excuse some horrible actions, because someone in a position of power told them they're good and the other guy's bad.

Literally a piece of paper / fabric to wear for a 20 minute shopping trip, which a whole lot of people have to wear hours on end as part of their daily profession.

>>13667
Did you read the line directly before the one you had quoted? The one that line was in response to?
>>13663
>"especially for the sake of those most vulnerable who had the very breathing problems you mentioned"

>to wear for a 20 minute shopping trip
This might shock you, but people have jobs.
I know, an alien concept to you.

A whole lot of folk had to wear masks as a part of their jobs, for quite a long time.

>>13663
>Because the research shows the opposite.

Not at all, the articles you posted point to the Cochrane institute's study on masking mandates and respiratory illnesses in general not just Covid, and it was about rates of respiratory illness at the level of the community rather than at individual levels. It doesn't logically follow that means mask don't work when other factors haven't been tested or observed, because a lot more avenues of transmission exist when their were plenty of people who just actively refused them. It might as well be stating that mask don't work because people don't use them, which is pretty fucking obvious

And even if the study did indicate mask were 100% ineffective, it wouldn't indicate anything sinister. Do you understand what a false dichotomy fallacy is? When you treat any evidence that masking was ineffective as evidence for a 'social expirement' or fucking whatever you want to call it, you're precuding all other more likely scenarios, like it being a 'just in case' measure made when a lot was still unknown.

>You're right. The advice bounced back and forth at the time. Sometimes the narrative'd be that you don't need masks, and then, suddenly, it turned right around when convenient.

Do you understand how science even works or are you just being willfully ignorant? They bounced back and forth briefly because they were trying to weigh the consequences on the supply of masks available to medical professionals if they adviced mask mandates when they weren't even sure yet if it would even effectively mitigate the spread, but as research and evidence in how it spread through water droplets in coughs and sneezes, that was enough evidence to suggest masking was probably a good idea, for the sake of attempting to slow the spread, not 100% completely preventing it.

>Who once again got harassed by scumbags like yourself, screaming and yelling at them for having the audacity not to wear something that harms their breathing and puts them at greater risks...

The fact you consider that worse than the most vulnerable of us dying or becoming permanently disabled by covid (both of which happened to vulnerable members of my family in Texas) reflects how much of a fucking malignant narcissists you are. Bitch I'm fucking queer and shitheads like you have been harassing me about it and telling me I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity and that merely existing publicly out is 'grooming' kids. Do you expect me to have sympathy over that?

> We're talking about mandates enforced through state powers, social ostricization, and the loss of one's job, universally regardless of circumstances.

Oh fuck off with that gaslighting bullshit. "The State" is decentralized here, Fauci and the CDC merely made reccomendations, it was up to the states and local municipalities to determine for themselves to put nask mandates in place. And the only people who had any authority to end anyones jobs over masking were the employers themselves who gave plenty of warning to all employees earlier if they were going to mandate mask at work.

>Sure I did. They clearly state the lab leak theory is likely, contrary to your brainless,  idiotic, tribalistic narrative that any suggestion of the sort is "Alex Jones bullshit conspiracy theory".

They ALSO stated it was with low-confidence and stated multiple times that there wasn't any actual consensus across the intelligence community.

This is literally what Alex Jones does live on air, you're cherry-picking parts of them for the sake of your ego-protecting narrative.

>>13668
Jesus fuck christ did you read the line there that says
>which a whole lot of people have to wear hours on end as part of their daily profession.
?

>>13669
>and it was about rates of respiratory illness at the level of the community
Which is what all the fuss and hubub about masks was about? Yeah?
Again you seem bent on moving the goalposts.
The whole premise of these mandates were built on that appeal.
You yourself state it's for the sake of others, not the individual, to slow the spread.
Now you want to shift it because, of course, that's inconvenient for you.

>you're precuding all other more likely scenarios, like it being a 'just in case' measure made when a lot was still unknown.
It certainly does not. People do stupid, stupid things "just in case", for the "greater good", or just because they were told by someone else it's the right choice.

The problem is that it didn't do anything, and was used by many to harass and condemn others as you yourself've shown.
It gave you a justification to do such horrid nonsense as declare that you wish they'd suffer a fate worse than death.

> They bounced back and forth briefly because they were trying to weigh the consequences on the supply of masks available to medical professionals
The irony on display here;
Do you not see this as greater cause not to trust these people?
You're telling us here, now, that they lied to us. Even in your own presumptive narrative.

>, but as research and evidence in how it spread
What research was actually done, though? Because it seems quite clear from research now, these mandates had no effect, and the CDC's had to say cloth masks do fuck all anyway.

You conflate narrative with evidence.
Narrative is not evidence.
I could tell you pigs fly. That doesn't make it fact.

>The fact you consider that worse than the most vulnerable of us dying or becoming permanently disabled
Newsflash, dipshit:
That doesn't happen just over not wearing a fucking mask.
Again; The studies've been made.

Regardless; I DO consider it something wrong, and I DON'T accept your assholish concept that "Well it's okay to be an evil piece of human trash as long as it's for the greater good".
Nobody should be getting harassed, full fucking stop.
Sorry that unlike you, I've got actual fucking morals.

> Bitch I'm fucking queer
I don't give a rat's ass.
I've sucked dick.
That doesn't give me some special fucking privilege to harass people.

Don't use your sexuality to justify being a horrible human being.

> and shitheads like you have been harassing me about it
Genuinely go fuck yourself, you dishoenst fucking rodent.
I would never do such a thing. Nor would anyone like me. I have fucking MORALS. Besides that; You've made a giant fucking presumption on my orientation, not realizing I AM QUEER MYSELF, you dickhead.

You're a fucking psychopath with no human decency. And yet, you know what?
Unlike your disgusting scummy ass,  I'm not going to wish you die, I'm not going to say you deserve a fate worse than death.
Know why?
Because unlike you I'm actually a decent fucking human being.

> "The State" is decentralized here,
>CDC
>not a part of the state
Even leaving aside that you miss the point entirely; You're a fucking idiot.

States and local municipalities still mandate through state powers, dipshit.
If your local town decides to arrest you for speech, that's still state powers doing so.

> And the only people who had any authority to end anyones jobs over masking were the employers
Sure, and I never said otherwise, dickass.

>They ALSO stated it was with low-confidence
They ALSO stated it was the most fucking likely cause.

>Jesus fuck christ did you read the line there that says
Yeah, I fucking replied to it, you moron.

>>13668
>"A whole lot of folk had to wear masks as a part of their jobs, for quite a long time."

Why're you whining about reading when you clearly didn't spare a second to do so yourself?
Ah, who am I kidding. Of course you didn't. You don't give a shit about truth. You only want to vent and rant like a 12 year old in some call of duty match.
None of the argument or statement matters to you; Everyone who disagrees with you is just an evil fucking monster who deserves to die, right?

Can somebody explain to me why the political right-wing both a>claims that the Chinese government was responsible for the pandemic and b>claims that Americans should be friends with China, North Korea, and Russia via Donald Trump's 'America First' policy of supporting Putin's regime in invading Ukraine and other actions?

Like... look... the CCP are morally and ethically about the same as the Nazis. And they're peas in a pod with the North Korean and Russian totaltiarian dictatorships right now. It's a new Axis Powers alliance.

Shouldn't both the left and right and America be united against them? Then why Trump and why 'America First'? Why do half of Americans feel fine with these monsters doing terrible things just because modern conservatives sympathize with them or something?

Like I get that these dictatorships are acting against Jews, against gay people, against feminists, against Biden's administration in NATO, and so on. So? Who cares? If ISIS terrorists bomb a Baptist Church, shouldn't I hate the terrorists and want them gone even if religiously and politically I'm not an evangelical Chrisrian? Doesn't humanity come first?

>>13672
I'm not really sure what China and North Korea have to do with the Ukrainian invasion, but, it's a fairly simple explanation regardless;

Adversarial politics lead to worse results every time we've tried it.

How long's North Korea been as it is, now? Have we managed to accomplish anything with them, by constantly treating them as an enemy  worthy of nothing but contempt? No. They've continued their belligerence and ignored our demands.

When it comes to China we aren't doing anything, anyway. They still get nigh limitless access to American markets. And we say next to nothing about their atrocities.
I doubt that'll change so long as companies can get cheaply produced products. The left and right, at least in so far as politicians go, seem unified on this matter. Certainly they've enjoyed the boost to their pocketbooks.

Anyway; My stance is rather simple.
You either conquer, or ignore.
If you have a problem, saying "no, bad!" and refusing to trade doesn't really help.
What seems to be the more common result is that you tighten the belt of the lowest class in those societies, only hurting them further.
Proxy wars, like we see in Ukraine, don't work either. Would've thought this was known since Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Africa, but all you actually accomplish is get a ton of people killed and destabilize the region.
If you actually want to do something about these places, these regimes, we need to stop beating around the bush about it.
We can't just walk in and say "hey, sort yourself out". It doesn't work.
You want to dictate their politics? Conquer them. Anything less is half-assed moral posturing that helps no one.

>>13673
That doesn't make any sense at all.

If I choose to not intervene in the course of a neighbor doing something horrible, then that's not the same choice as actively supporting them. And neither is the same as stopping them (which is intervening in the positive sense).

If, God forbid, a neighbor in my block is molesting an innocent women in the street, and then I join in to get on her as well... or I stand right by them yelling encouragement... that's not being neutral and uninvolved. That's active participation. And it'd be completely justified to condemn me.

Actively supporting mainland China in essentially raping Taiwan via a bloody invasion is that on a larger scale.

>>13640
>>13641
>>13643
>>13644
>>13645
>>13646
>>13647
I don't really have anything to add on that central point since these posts already said about anything.

America being America, well, half the nation has almost no mental connection to either reality or to any sense of ethics versus what they do day to day.

This is why, say, after the October 7th terrorist attacks in Israel millions of Americans sympathized with those militants machine gunning innocent people and said so openly, and these exact Americans have Jewish family members, friends, work colleagues, and so on. They just don't connect things in their mind. Hell, anybody who's lived in the U.S. South can give specific examples. Like my grandmother who's nice to a black waitress right after ranting to me at the restaurant table about how the black people of America are trying to destroy the police and eliminate civilization entirely. People just have cognitive separation in this country.

It's terrifying. But that's life. You either accept the awfulness in who you choose to have in your circle of those that you care about. Or you adjust things and build a different community around yourself.

And social progress can happen. Does happen. It's just slow as a glacier moving. And means a lot of aggregate effort. Alas.

In the long run, I'm hopeful. Still.

>>13674
I think we're talking two different things, then. I'm not sure what you mean.

I don't think anyone, right or left, is encouraging or otherwise cheering on China to screw Taiwan.

Boris Johnson is without question the worst Prime Minister in Britain's history.
Not only did he preside over hundreds of thousands of COVID deaths, but he broke the rules and was at parties at No. 10.
All while everyone else was following the rules to protect themselves, their family, loved ones and the most vulnerable in society.

>>13653
I understood the skepticism about vaccines at first but as time passed and the people who got vaccinated didn't grow an extra head or turn into government drones, the case against them got weaker and weaker to the point that there's basically no good reason to not be vaccinated anymore. I don't think people should die for the crime of being wrong or anything, but after a certain point they just started making things worse for themselves and everyone else.

As for the mask thing, the review you posted at >>13652 states that there's no evidence that masking up works. This doesn't mean that there's evidence that masking up doesn't work, it means they don't know either way. And there's plenty of studies that show that masking up does help. For example:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm
>After implementation of mask mandates in 24 Kansas counties, the increasing trend in COVID-19 incidence reversed. Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties by the executive order, rates in mandated counties declined markedly after July 3, compared with those in nonmandated counties. Kansas counties that had mask mandates in place appear to have mitigated the transmission of COVID-19, whereas counties that did not have mask mandates continued to experience increases in cases.

Also, maybe don't insult people when you're trying to argue against them. It just makes them less willing to listen to you, and I don't want to assume you came here just to pick fights.

>>13666
>I have breathing issues.
Then you're not an antimasker, dummy. You're not the kind of person I was talking about. You had a legitimate medical reason not to wear a mask. It would have been dangerous for you to do so. So you didn't. That's fine, that's acceptable, I respect that, and I wasn't talking about you.

>>13675
If it helps I'm not American.

>>13688
Regardless of who you were talking about, that is how such toxic mindsets get flooded into the community.
It's not as though you can tell at a glance who has asthma and who does not, after all. As I said.
So people see an otherwise healthy looking young man and flip.

>Also, maybe don't insult people when you're trying to argue against them.
Gonna be blunt, when you start saying that it's a bummer that me and my family didn't die, you've dropped any pretense of civility.
I'm going to respond with the same hostility. Well, less, really, since unlike you, I don't think it's a shame Covid didn't kill you.

> the people who got vaccinated didn't grow an extra head or turn into government drones
Nobody's suggested that it'd grow you an extra head.
There IS concern of the long-term health effects... including a number of issues that've cropped up, most notably the increase in heart problems.
And considering now it's being shown the vaccine did next to if not outright nothing... And the FDA's even revoked a number of them, after their rushed approval... It's quite thoroughly reasonable to be concerned about its health effects.

https://time.com/5947134/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-stopped/

>. I don't think people should die for the crime of being wrong or anything,
But you are disappointed that they didn't.

>>13696
There's an unfortunately large amount of assholes in the world who don't account for individual circumstances like that. Again, you're not the kind of people I'm talking about. The kind of people who could've worn a mask but refused, thus spreading the disease and causing more infections and therefore deaths, because Donald Trump told them so, are the people I'm saying I don't like.

>when you start saying that it's a bummer that me and my family didn't die
As I keep saying, I'm not talking about you. But I'll admit to being overly flippant and apologise. I didn't intend for it to be taken 100% seriously and I evidently misread the room.

>There IS concern of the long-term health effects... including a number of issues that've cropped up, most notably the increase in heart problems
I did hear about that, but given that they're now saying COVID can cause permanent brain and lung damage I think it might've still been worth it. I'm not a scientist so I don't know the exact pros and cons.

>And considering now it's being shown the vaccine did next to if not outright nothing
I'm interested to know your source for this.

>And the FDA's even revoked a number of them, after their rushed approval
Yeah the first vaccines probably sucked, I'm not going to deny that. But if the vaccine did in fact help, I think it was the right idea to roll it out ASAP, even with the very minor risk of blood clots and stuff.
>so far, among the millions vaccinated in the E.U. and U.K., just 15 have developed DVT, or blood clots in vein blood vessels, and 22 have developed clots in the lungs that originated elsewhere and traveled to pulmonary arteries. Those figures, AstraZeneca said, are much lower than the number of cases expected to occur naturally in that population.
Remember that even if the vaccines killed a handful of people, COVID likely would have killed more of them.

>>13709
>thus spreading the disease and causing more infections
You assume that to be the case, in spite of evidence suggesting it had little to no effect.
And you use that to justify being disappointed more people didn't die to this disease, no less.

> because Donald Trump told them so
Definite bullshit, here.
It wasn't because DT said not to wear masks. Hell, near as I can tell, he never said such a thing, to begin with.
Are we just making shit up now?

>. I didn't intend for it to be taken 100% seriously and I evidently misread the room.
What "room" is it acceptable to say you're bummed more people didn't die to a disease over something so minor as not wearing a mask?

> I think it might've still been worth it
Cool. And that's a choice YOU as an individual should make, not something that should be forced on you, nor something that warrants hoping you die to a disease.

>I'm interested to know your source for this.
The continual boostershots and contracts leaked that show efficacy isn't required, as well as the numerous statements by the CDC and experts that it doesn't stop you from transmitting nor from catching it, as well as leaves you open to variants anyway.

>Remember that even if the vaccines killed a handful of people, COVID likely would have killed more of them.
Thing is, that's a presumption made universally without any consideration for the individual. It's just taking stats as a whole, and making a blanket statement.

Grab an otherwise healthier 20 year old, and the vaccine is certainly unnecessary, as they're almost certain to go through covid without an issue. The reports showed that Covid posed a threat primarily to the elderly, and those with underlying issues.

And this is leaving aside those who are not in areas where Covid was a major issue; Much as the man in the desert doesn't really need worry about drowning, if you're in a rural area, taking a risk on an experimental drug with no long-term testing because of a disease that odds're good you're not going to catch is probably a bad idea.

Looking at the facts and deciding for yourself shouldn't warrant folk saying that you deserve to die to a disease.

>>13670
>Which is what all the fuss and hubub about masks was about .... that's inconvenient for you.

Did you fail reading comprehension in school or something. The whole Cochran study was basically implying that mask mandates don't work cause people don't follow them. Claiming that that means mask themselves have no effect is grasping at straws. But it's irrelevant cause it doesn't absolve you of this bullshit entitled attitude you seemed to have had back then.

>It certainly does not. People do stupid, stupid things "just in case", for the "greater good", or just because they were told by someone else it's the right choice.

Yeah? And? It's a pragmatic choice, one most of us followed because the reasoning behind it was sound and consistent with basic epidemiology. Like someone taking precautions with raw fish and fully cooking it to potentially kill any pathogens and parasites without being certain what (if any) would be present in it at all, it's a sensible rule of thumb. There is nothing wrong with taking precautions over something that would otherwise have a low probability of happening without the precaution, unless it has the chance of doing something worse, which wearing a paper mask when indoors in public absolutely does not have. You might as well tell a cop responding to an outdoor mass shooting incident that they don't need to bother with protection because the shooter has poor aim. This is literally the most pathetically weak excuse for a shitty selfish attitude.


>The problem is that it didn't do anything, and was used by many to harass and condemn others as you yourself've shown.
>It gave you a justification to do such horrid nonsense as declare that you wish they'd suffer a fate worse than death.

I still stand by that sentiment given the flimsy post-hoc rationalizing of such entitled fucking behavior. Even if it were true that masking did nothing and madk don't work (which the Cochrane report doesn't actually indicate), that doesn't, after the fact, absolve anyone of the selfishness of placing their own subjective interpretation of whatever symbolic meaning they interpreted in the mask mandates above pragmatic precaution as a courtesy for others.

>>13670
>I don't give a rat's ass.
>I've sucked dick.
That doesn't give me some special fucking privilege to harass people.

>cowardly dodging the point.

Point is I know what it's like to be ostracized and harrased, and even to receive death threats, and none of that is anywhere near as bad as dying or being permanently disabled by a disease. You aren't going to get any fucking sympathy from me over how bad it feels to be harassed treated like a selfish asshole because you act like a selfish asshole and grasp at flimsy and fallacious justifications for it.

>They ALSO stated it was the most fucking likely cause.

That's still not proof! Especially so when there isn't consensus about it and the fact they stated they have low confidence in that assessment. Nothing is conclusive. You're blatantly grasping at straws to create a narrative that absolves your selfish attitude post-hoc.

>Because unlike you I'm actually a decent fucking human being.

HA!

>>13670
>>CDC
>>not a part of the state

>Continuing to cowardly dodge the point

You act like the CDC has more power than it does and grasp at straws like a state organization that can only make reccomendations is making some symbolic show of power with no justification for it, and regurgitating this conspiratorial right-wing media ecosystem narrative about the CDC as if they alone were responsible for every decision made when the quarantine and the mask mandates weren't even consistently enacted across the states, municipalities or employers.

>>13666
>>13666
>I have breathing issues. And it's not like people can tell at a glance. So you get nasty words from folk, shouting confrontations, stores deny service, even get hassled by employers.

Oh? So you weren't the kind of person I was referring to in my initial post? The way you've stretched logical soundness to the breaking point to try and justify this ridiculously improbable narrative that violates Hanlon's razor to the breaking point makes me suspicious that you're not being entirely honest here.

>>13711

>Definite bullshit, here.
>It wasn't because DT said not to wear masks. Hell, near as I can tell, he never said such a thing, to begin with.
>Are we just making shit up now?

>being this disengenuous

DT said 'this is going to make me look bad' and that was reason enough for conservatives, especially the pundits on conservatives media outlets, to make it into a dumb culture war issue in a gross displaced of misplaced moral priorities, and making mountains out of molehills over something as minor as wearing a paper mask over one's face in crowded in door places.

The fact that you're regurgitating the same flimsy narratives that the right-wing media ecosystem and accussing those who followed mask mandates of not thinking for themselves isn't making look like any less of a cowardly fucking hypocritical post-hoc straw grasping asshole. I followed mask mandates not out of blind obedience to the state, but because of everything I understood about transmission of airborne diseases from basic epidemiology. It stink of extremely hypocritical projection.

>>13719
>cowardly dodging the point.
I did adress the point, you dishonest piece of human filth.
I had an entire paragraph after that, explaining I don't do such a thing, because unlike you, who'd happily wish a fate worse than death on those they disagree with, I've actually got fucking MORALS

You came out of nowhere to throw some
'U MUST HATE QUEER PEEPOL' garbage, not knowing that I am, in fact, a part of that. So I sure as the everliving fuck don't harass ANYBODY for such a thing.

You're a deranged fucking cultist, who views anyone who dares disagree with you as satan.
Hopefully someone gets you some strong meds before you inevitably hurt someone with these psychotic beliefs.

>>13720
>You came out of nowhere to throw some
>'U MUST HATE QUEER PEEPOL' garbage, not knowing that I am, in fact, a part of that. So I sure as the everliving fuck don't harass ANYBODY for such a thing.

Great, dodging again and not addressing what I actually said.

It's bothering me a lot that I said nothing impolite to anybody in this thread and yet I apparently need to suffer horribly and then die regardless. Apparently.

>>13721
Your "point" was that you don't have sympathy for me because apparently shitheads like me are harassing you and telling you you're gonna burn in hell.
Despite none of that ever being at any point anything I've ever fucking suggested, whatsoever.
It's literally just you projecting a villain in your head and making blanket assumptions about everyone else.

Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

>>13722

Well if you are like the kind of person as I first described here...
>>13644

then yeah, I'd certainly feel that way about you.


>>13724
>Your "point" was that you don't have sympathy for me because apparently shitheads like me are harassing you and telling you you're gonna burn in hell.
>Despite none of that ever being at any point anything I've ever fucking suggested, whatsoever.

The fucking point is I am fucking disgusted with your playing the goddamn victim over this when people actually fucking suffered and died from covid, not to mention those who suffered and died of other common curable things due to the overload on the health care system.

I'm saying I get harrased for being queer in all sorts of places, to imply I am in the same situation as you!! The point is to say I'm not moved by that bullshit grasp at sympathy

So fucking what if you got fucking harrased? You act like a selfish entitled asshole over something that was intended to mitigate the burden on the healthcare system and minimize that suffering,  all because of your arrogant fucking interpretation of it as 'social expirement' or because it violates some two dimensional libertarian ideology, and you have the fucking gall to act like you were the bigger victim in all that!? Fucking die in a fire!!

'I HAVE MORALS!' MY ASS!!

>>13726
>The fucking point is I am fucking disgusted with your playing the goddamn victim over this when people actually fucking suffered and died from covid,
>"WH-WHUT ABOUT DA STARVING KIDS IN AFRICAAA!!!!!!11!~!!!"

It's entirely irrelevant. Nor does it suddenly justify harassment.

>I'm saying I get harrased for being queer in all sorts of places,
Yeah, explicitly by "shitheads like me".
You've explicitly conflated me into that same camp.
Do you really not see the fucking issue there? How shitty of a thing to do that is?

>The point is to say I'm not moved by that bullshit grasp at sympathy
So, what, you're telling me it's okay that people get harrassed for being queer, just because people die from covid?
Of course not.
It's an entirely useless point that serves no fucking purpose.

Your lack of sympathy is your own moral failing alone.

> all because of your arrogant fucking interpretation of it as 'social expirement' or because it violates some two dimensional libertarian ideology,
Or because I have fucking breathing issues, and know what masks do besides, how they work, and what they can and can't do. Stifling your breathing for 8+ hours a day is not going to help you avoid getting sick. If anything, it'll tank your immune system, and make it more likely when something inevitably gets onto that mask, and sits there, seeping into the cloth, all day long.

I never said shit about a 'social experiment', and 90% of this stuff wasn't enforced by the state, so it's not some 'libertarian' thing.

> Fucking die in a fire!!
Showing your true colors, I see.
Keep crying, you worthless waste of space.
I'm not going to stoop to your level, no matter how much of a disgraceful piece of shit you are.

>>13731
>>"WH-WHUT ABOUT DA STARVING KIDS IN AFRICAAA!!!!!!11!~!!!"

Fuck off you dishonest cowardly garbage, people in our immediate vicinity were the concern, people, not people in another fucking continent that can barely be effected by anything.


>Do you really not see the fucking issue there? How shitty of a thing to do that is?

Are you incapable of reading comprehension?

I am not impressed by your crying over being harrased because it's nothing compared to the suffering, of your neighbors not people 10 time zones away, from covid and other consequences of covid you thin skinned narcissist!

>So, what, you're telling me it's okay that people get harrassed for being queer, just because people die from covid?

No, of course not you fucking coward, quit fucking dodging the actual point!

You're immediate neighbors, including any other vulnerable family members were the primary moral consideration, because they're the ones each of us could immediately effect with our actions or inactions. They aren't people on the other side of the planet.


>>13731
>Stifling your breathing for 8+ hours a day is not going to help you avoid getting sick.
>and 90% of this stuff wasn't enforced by the state, so it's not some 'libertarian' thing.

And no one forced you to wear a mask continuously. I fucking lived in Silicon Valley during the pandemic and I was never forced to stay locked in my apartment, nor was I forced or even condemned for taking my daily walk without wearing a mask, or driving without wearing one, no one here was despite the narrative coming out of the right-wing media ecosystem. All that was required was to wear a mask when going indoors in a public space. The only people who were asked to wear mask continuously were medical workers and "essential" workers at those grocery stores. And even in those cases no one was demanding that any of them wear the same mask all day, so don't give me this fucking bullshit about having to sit with your own germs all day long.

And if you had breathing issues, you were the primary concern for those usingthe mask!

But at this point the fact you consider getting harassed over that is worse than those vulnerable people (like yourself)  in your community suffering from covid or needing medical care from an over-burdened healthcare system that cannot provide, even hypothetically just shows that you have no moral fiber, made that much worse by all this bullshit rationalization via the flimsy right-wing media ecosystem narratives and fucking logically flimsy interpretations of cherry picked information speaks volumes about your lack of moral priorities.

And I especially am not goi g to have any fucking sympathy for anyone who didn't have any practical reason to not mask indoors in public for something like a quick grocery store run, especially when they were using these same flimsy excuses and playing the special little big victim in all that.

>>13734
>immediate vicinity were the concern, people, not people in another fucking continent
Which, first off, doesn't fucking mean anyone should be fucking harassed any more than it does when some nutjob says we should crack down on homosexuality became some kids get taken advantage of and they decided that's the gays fault.

And this is leaving aside that the entire premise you're arguing is built on nothing but paranoia. No rationality, just emotional appeal, and freakout.
Honestly, it's a wonder you're not out burning witches.

>I am not impressed by your crying over being harrased because it's nothing compared to the suffering
Yes, I know, you don't give a shit about suffering, if you can point to starving kids in Africa.
Then whatever harm occurs, it's fine, because someone had it worse.

>because they're the ones each of us could immediately effect with our actions or inactions.
Sure, COULD. Not does, not did, not even will.
It's solely your ASSUMPTION.
And using this blind assumption without any actual science behind it, you're punishing those who dare disagree with you.

>>13735
>>13734
>The only people who were asked to wear mask continuously were medical workers and "essential" workers at those grocery stores.
I can personally and directly attest to that being a simple and flat out of objective lie

I absolutely 100% did have to wear a mask during the entirety of my working hours or else I would get fired.

You evidently have such a luxurious and privileged life where you don't have to work 8 hours a day in order to keep a roof above your head regardless of the health hazards of wearing something that restricts your damn breathing on your face that entire time lest you get fired over it.

Good for you I'm glad you did so well during covid that you are so well off so luxuriously treated nicely and everything.
Not all of us got that looks for you piece of dishonest disingenuous pile of human fucking garbage.
Not everybody got the lap of luxury that evidently you had it wasn't a great time to the rest of us.

>And even in those cases no one was demanding that any of them wear the same mask all day, so don't give me this fucking bullshit about having to sit with your own germs all day long
Oh yes because there wasn't a massive fucking shortage of masks going on during that entire fucking pandemic.

Again you're just being a dishonest piece of trash it's a shock that you can even survive in this world given how thoroughly you lie I'm shocked your mother didn't strangle you had childbirth considering your attitude.

That shit was sold out everywhere for nearly the entire God damn thing. My job only provided the one cloth mask. They weren't disposable you were expected to wear them every day you were at work.
Even leaving aside the issue of throwing out your mask every hour as if you can suddenly somehow afford upwards of 50 masks a week.
You're such a rodent it's laughable.

>And if you had breathing issues, you were the primary concern for those usingthe mask!
Yeah because once again lowering my immune system massively by having a fucking disease covered mask on my face 48 hours every single fucking day is somehow a magically going to improve my breathing situation and does not make it horribly worse

Do not give me that garbage


>)  in your community suffering
Which isn't house by forcing people to wear the fucking mask you dishonest piece of tress it isn't help by people being harassed for not wearing a mask or medical problems.

Go fuck yourself you are such a rat.

>even hypothetically
If I said that hypothetically stabbing yourself 27 times in the leg would save a child in Africa would you just do it?

Of course not the morality does not follow. It's absolute absurdity that just because something is stated you have to blindly follow it no matter what because it might possibly maybe help somebody somewhere. That's not how this stuff works. That's obvious not something that people are obligated to follow.
Nobody has to do something because of possibility alone with no evidence behind it. The CDC gave contradicting information constantly throughout the entire goddamn thing because of this crap. At the end of the day it was nothing more than an emotional appeal as you yourself are demonstrating here and now saying it's okay to roll rasp people as long as it's for the greater good.

Fuck you and fuck your greater good.
That shit's how people get lined up against the wall. That shits how we get holocausts genocides and worse.

>>13736
>You evidently have such a luxurious and privileged life where you don't have to work 8 hours a day in order to keep a roof above your head regardless of the health hazards of wearing something that restricts your damn breathing on your face that entire time lest you get fired over it.
I had to work throughout the entire pandemic and wearing a mask *sucked*. Work at a hospital, too, which was way more intensely mandated to keep masks on at all times than I imagine most places of work.

What really sucked was when summer hit, and was needing to haul so much equipment between the main campus and satellite offices in a mask.

But given a chance to go back in time and do it again, I'd still be in the mask anyway. It was a pain. It fogged up my glasses. Etc. But despite working in a high-risk place like a hospital, I didn't get covid once through the initial period.

I actually got covid in 2022, after basically everyone stopped caring about masks - and every aspect of wearing a mask was basically nothing compared to having covid. Basically felt like I was dying the entire time. If I could have gone back in time and wore a mask for longer, I would have done so in a heartbeat - and this was in 2022 when covid was much milder than the variants of 2020.

If you have such a breathing issue with wearing a mask, I have no idea how you would fare with actually covid. I wouldn't wish catching covid on an average person - I imagine someone with a respiratory issue catching covid would be exponentially worse.

>>13738
I caught it twice as it happens. Knocked me on my ass, but, it wasn't really a big deal. I was still in my 20s at the time, though, which is probably a big part of it.

Hospital masks are probably different, if I had to bet, from the cloth things we got. All I know for sure is pretty much everyone caught it regardless, where I worked. Though like I said prior, we had basically one single mask given to us a piece, so I can't say I'm shocked.

>>13738

You think I didn't suffer in the pandemic at all?

Yeah, I was fucking lucky as hell to have the partner I had because I was too disabled to work. But I lost family to the pandemic in Texas, my homestate.

Don't you fucking act like you were greatest victim in this, everyone fucking suffered. That you're so goddamn selfish that you can't distinguish between the people who live right next door to you from people on the otherside of the world from you truly reveals how much of a fucking psychopath you are. You're no fucking different than anyone else in Texas who didn't give a shit about anyone else but themselves.

I stand by my original statements

>>13726
>Well if you are like
Nah. That's someone else.

>>13740
I think that you had the luxury of not having to deal with a mask on your face 45+ hours a week, unlike many of us, and that's given you a false impression of what exactly was demanded of people.

> the people who live right next door to you from people on the otherside of the world
Please, by all means, explain to me why it's okay if someone's beaten and raped in China because they're not your neighbor...

>>13749
These are rather weird arguments to hear from a libertarian such as yourself who thinks that if a child's family doesn't have the money for their organ transplant than said child ought to die, because such is the will of capitalism.

If big business tells you to wear a mask or else as well as to do anything else quashing your personal choice or else, well, that's that? Right? Free markets are allowed to do anything to anyone, remember?

>>13757
You like to make a lot of assumptions about me, I see.

The irony is, I actually want state-funded healthcare.
Not the broken American insurance type fare that barely functions, but state-funded clinics where treatment is simply free.

>If big business...
You confuse being able to do something without state interference with something being moral.

I can lie to my spouse about fucking another woman.
The state can't prosecute me for such an action. Or at least, I'd certainly say it shouldn't be able to.
Does that mean you can never critique that action? That anyone calling it out as an immoral thing to do is a hypocrite suddenly?
Of course not.

And this is besides leaving aside the massive issue that corporations are hardly individuals anyway.
They've got significant powers, they might as well be states in their own right. Hell, if a company does something blatantly illegal, it's not like the owners get arrested. The company just gets a fine, and continues as normal. Something no individual enjoys.
I will never understand the left's recent choice in simping for megacorporations...

>Deleted posts
lol. lmao

Shutting down society indefinitely to save the weak and elderly was an immoral choice. Death is a necessary part of life. How the Left can talk out of one corner of their mouth about collectivism, while also going to heroic efforts to save those who have already served their purpose to society and are now a burden on it, serving no further purpose for the collective, is baffling. The same people who are pro choice i.e. the choice to end new life and have no regard for the sanctity of it, will purport to care if random 100-year-old grandma survives an extra week over you wearing a mask or not. Those who died served their purpose and are no longer of use in the collectivist society. As tragic as it may be, in the interest of maintaining a healthy society, it is good that those who died actually did.

>>14261
Bro are you a pizza cutter 'cause that's a lot of fuckin' edge you got there.

>>14261
From a pragmatic point of view, you're correct. That's the reason people would abandon or outright kill babies with deformities in the past. But humans aren't always pragmatic, and our emotions make things 'sticky'.

It was gay.