No.2658[View All]
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Unfortunately, as of late, it seems that there's a lot of trouble going around, and, I've always thought this was the type of thing rule 1 existed to fix.
But, it seems rule 1 either doesn't mean what I thought it does, or simply isn't enforced as a rule.
If it's the first, what constitutes a rule 1 violation?
Would calling someone a jerk, saying they're cruel, or insinuating they're being manipulative for the purpose of hurting another be a violation of rule 1?
Would constant hostile accusatory remarks, such as "you're trying to get me in trouble", or "you just want to make me look dumb", not be a violation of rule 1?
If it's the latter, though, I think that needs to change. I'd say Rule 1 is a large part of why this place has been so pleasant. Making people be polite to one another helps to bring about common understanding and build friendships.
Constant shitflinging such as examples above only give scars and disdain towards other users.
26 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. No.2808
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>>2805It's not just assumptions, though.
It's particularly hostile and mean-spirited assumptions. Assumptions built to discredit and attack someone's character.
Things like "You're just saying that to hurt me", or "You're just trying to get me banned", or "You're just being cruel", and so on.
If it's really not something possible to enforce, you guys really need to reconsider the filter system.
If we can't keep such attacks out, the least we can do is give users the option to not see said attacks day in and day out.
Even if it still leaves those attacks visible to others, hurting your reputation, at the very least, you don't have to constantly take the harm such statements dish out.
No.2810
>>2809>>2808i'll talk with staff about it
it's not that i disagree, just that it seems like it'd go downhill fast
No.2811
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>>2810Maybe, but, do you think it'd be worse than the current state of constant fights and growing hatreds?
I'm willing to wager against it, since the staff for the most part seems to be careful when it comes to this sort of thing, anyway.
And, honestly, even if it does, something needs to be done.
I, at least, don't think I can keep dealing with this sort of thing. It really drains me, and, I can't really afford that any more. It's not healthy.
No.2812
>>2811i think most users are fighting significantly less lately, after the political ban
it really sucks to have shitty things assumed of you, i get that, it's a pain i'm very familiar with
but as for your question? i think trying to enforce the policy you're suggesting would make things a lot worse, because it would make people in pain less able to express when they feel someone's being an ass to them
No.2827
>>2819again, i love you, but i think you are expecting way too much of the average person and also the staff, myself included
assuming negative things about each other is -to be blunt- built into the foundation of human communication
we quickly profile each other, and it blows, but i don't think we have the resources to fix that
negative assumptions are the biggest reason i hated discourse on this site, too, but i'm trying to be realistic
if we can work out a worst-case scenario example of how this would go, and work from there, i think the problems would be apparent
No.2828
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>>2812I don't think that's accurate. I have seen the same stuff thrown around, it's just we haven't had a big argument which made a certain user do that again.
> because it would make people in pain less able to express when they feel someone's being an ass to themI don't consider this a bad thing, really. At least, if you want to maintain a respectful or civil site, overall. Which, I thought, was the point of rule 1.
If someone's being an ass, report them. Otherwise, there's absolutely no reason to be a dick back.
That's how we get massive fights. Completely unproductive.
>>2827There is literally only one poster I have an issue with when it comes to this problem, so I don't think I could agree that this is something everyone does.
If it was something everyone does, surely I'd have more than one poster who does it.
No.2829
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>>2828If this is specifically about a single poster, it may be more productive to discuss it with them than enact a rules change that we may be unable to deliver on.
If you tell me which poster, I can try to discuss it with them, which may be more immediately productive.
No.2830
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>>2829I have many times tried to talk to Manley about this.
It has done nothing.
I'm doubtful you can get him to change his behavior, if nobody else has after ages of this shit, but, hey, you're welcome to try.
No.2831
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>>2830It's certainly worth a shot, don't you think?
No.2833
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>>2831Like I said; If you want to, go for it.
I've tried for a very long time now.
No effect.
Usually, when I give him an argument to attempt to apply to empathy, ala
>>2690 , it just gets ignored, and the behavior continues as normal with the exact same justification we see
>>2680Apparently, if there's a >0% chance someone is something, it's totally justified to call them that, according to him.
No.2841
>>2833You've never tried to talk to me about anything without getting pissed and telling me to "fuck off". You always escalate things and get angry.
Also, that was a completely different situation and context where I said that "not zero" stuff. I was saying that it's not an insult to say someone is intentionally being cruel to you unless you can prove that they aren't being cruel on purpose. Which you can't, because that's impossible. Quit trying to twist my words to make me out into a bad person. Isn't that exactly what you're accusing me of?
No.2849
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>>2841Nah, dude. That's just flat out untrue. I can't tell you how many times I've been trying to get you to understand this shit. Hell, I did it in this thread, here.
>Also, that was a completely different situation and context where I said that "not zero" stuff.You said it right
>>2680>"In my mind, no. Because the chances of them actually doing that are not zero."The context doesn't change this.
And it's still insulting and hurtful, regardless. Especially given that the thing we're talking about isn't even you saying they were
being cruel, but rather that they,
were cruel.
No.2853
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>>2841> Isn't that exactly what you're accusing me of?What I am accusing you of is doing what you've done in this post here.
Saying things like "Quit trying to twist my words to make me out into a bad person" , which are just a thoroughly insulting assumption of someone's intent, and something I thoroughly don't appreciate.
I do not believe I've made any assumptions of your intention. I've not said "Manley only posts things like that because he enjoys hurting me". I've not sat here, and said "He only disagrees with me because he wants to make me look bad". These are, however, things
you have done.
My critiques are of the
actions you've made, not some deeper intention I've no way of getting.
What I accuse you of is what you have
done, and we can prove you've done. Mostly by pointing to this post here, actually.
No.2871
>>2853>>2870We've read and heard your complaints about Manley's harassment, and have now taken the punitive action we deem appropriate. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
-Abby
No.2893
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Woah, one certainly misses quite a bit when they don't regularly visit the other boards.
>>2796Instead of filtering a user in general I wonder if there would be a way to hide or filter specific posts like we can now for whole threads.
No.4249
Feel like this thread is relevant once again, so I'm going to bump it.
Since the whole "filter user" item is appearing to be tossed out, I think this discussion evidently needs to continue, as it's clear at the moment, staff doesn't do anything for Rule 1 violations.
It seems to me like we've run into the exact same problem I had pointed out
>>2796 , with the exact same desire for "Well, if you aren't going to do anything about rule violations, at least give users the ability to avoid these things".
Unfortunately, despite supposedly having the problems raised in this thread addressed, it seems now, they're repeating once again.
It seems like the complaint never actually got solved, and a temporary patch was thrown on.
This site is honestly starting to become one of the bigger stress factors in my life at this point. Maybe that's a stupid thing to stress over, but, honestly, these are the few places I can really socialize with others. So, for me, it's a little more hung on to than it probably should be. It's probably part of why I tend to get so firey on conversations around this sort of thing. In any case, I'm not really sure what to do. The whole "ignore it on your own" has never been something I am able to do, anywhere. Not even in the real world, as it were. I've gotten in huge arguments with managers who've had a bad day or just didn't look in to something and blamed me for what I never did, usually with quite disastrous effect. So, being told to just "ignore" the problem doesn't seem viable to me. Certainly, I've tried to before, and, I never really could.
At this point, I just don't really know what to do any more. I don't know if it's healthy for me to stick around here, or if I should cut this site out of my life, in the same way I did things like Twitter, or Ponychan. Though, I'm not so great at staying consistent on that, either, unfortunately. So now and again the stress there'll seep back in.
At the end of the day, you should have rules in place to solve this issue. People aren't supposed to insult eachother on the site. But, for some reason, when a problem arises, it's jammed on to my feet. I'm told it's not the staff's job to fix my hangups. But, isn't it the staff's job to enforce the rules? Isn't that the whole point of having these rules?
If we're expected to just sort things out, person to person, why do you guys do anything? Why do we have rules?
On an unrelated note, for some reason, trying to make this reply with an image would not go through. Dunno if it's an issue with the age of the thread, or what, but, something to note.
No.4250
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>>4249If the stress of a website gives you stress I think you should leave the website. Rather than the whole of the website catering to you.
No.4260
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>>4259Well, there's a swing. Want to clarify what you mean?
No.4271
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>>4270That is quite unfortunate. Would you care to explain why?
Do you think such a particular issue could be benefited or at least solved in part buy a filter system?
This assumes your particular issue is not something that could be directly enforced by ruling, as a specific violation of the rules, of course.
If it is something that you believe could be, then, I would suggest we are in the same boat. At the end of the day, what I want is for the staff to actually enforce the rules on this website. Or, failing that, it would be nice if we were given the option just want our own problems out.
Personally, I am quite lucky, as chain was kind enough to provide a means to solve that particular issue, in spite of the staff's objections to implementing such an option on the website itself.
I think that the script is relatively simple to modify for your own use, at least if I am understanding the code correctly. I am a bit of a novice when it comes to this type of thing, but, I believe if you replace the name already present in the script provided with my own, it would, theoretically anyway, solve your particular issue.
Not 100%, admittedly. There are a few issues. Ops will still be visible, as well as automatically updated threads. It would be nicer for an on-site solution that'd get around this, but, as said, it seems they are not fond of the concept of filtering.
No.4273
>>4272I will have to double-check, but I don't believe so.
Should be simple enough to test when I get home.
No.4274
>>4273I just double-checked (on
>>>/test/) and it's working on my machine (using Chrome 74 with Tampermonkey). It should filter out any name containing the string "Manley". (It turns out the "
.*
" is redundant and can be removed.) If it doesn't please let me know.
>>4271>if you replace the name already present in the script provided with my own, it wouldYup. And you can also change it by manually setting the value of
localStorage.filtered_usernames
at the debug console --- this takes priority over the name hardcoded in the script.
No.4275
>>4274I think I found the problem. Or, at least, for whatever reason, doing this solved it.
For whatever reason ,the old version didn't update, but the new one where you've solved the issue around "$" does perfectly fine.
No idea why.
Maybe I accidentally something, or it just doesn't like Brave.
Works now, either way.
No.4276
>>4270>>4259I don't want to sound rude, or insensitive, or anything, but, it's really hard to give any kind of consideration to people who make single, short, vague statements posted anonymously.
There is unfortunately nothing in iver these posts that I can really use to improve or self-reflect in any kind of capacity.
I probably should just ignore them, but, he's kind of things have a nasty habit of nagging at the back of my head for ages. That's why I'm commenting now, after all. The annoying thing is, with stuff like this, there's never any actual solution, outside of waiting for the feeling to fade away. Like, what else could I do with these, except for literally just disappear? The only way I could improve either of your issues, with the information I've been provided, is literally just to leave the site.
I'm probably being overly sensitive here, but, like I said, it's something of a significant itch, so to speak.
No.4277
>>4276Sorry, I had fully intended to come back and elaborate, but this has been a particularly busy and exhausting week for me. To be honest, I am thinking is why I made my post at all. Normally I'd never post something so passive aggressive but I think I was just irritable in my exhaustion and honestly I would like to apologize for letting that get to me and saying something like that to begin with.
That said, I guess now I've already gone ahead and said it, so the least I can do is try to explain. I understand the impulse to want to take criticism as a chance to improve and the frustration of not finding specifics in order to do that, I've got similar inclinations so i get that, and again sorry for causing the anxiety over that fact, it was inconsiderate of me.
However I dont think Im capable of actually giving you that, my frustrations with you are in no way personal, in fact this may be the first time Ive directly spoken to you. Mostly I am a lurker, and I have just found that whenever i encounter you in a thread, its an argument of some sort and is going one and on bullheadedly. I think the only thing I could offer as a change to not cause people that discomfort I feel was already offered to you by Mondo, but you told him you were not capable of simply letting things go or not commenting on them, so Im uncertain what else I'd even suggest. I just personally find you abrasive and maybe theres a chance thats nothing to do with you and everything to do with me, but it does leave me wondering why I keep coming back as you arent the only user Ive started to feel this way about. Again its nothing personal and I should never have said anything. Sorry about that
No.4278
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>>4277That's no problem. I completely understand. I've been having a fairly hectic chunk of days, myself.
Don't worry too much about anything said, either. The only reason it really bothered me is that there wasn't quite enough to it for me to work off of. I really do appreciate honest critique, as it lets me self-reflect to a large degree. Just has a habit of throwing me off a little bit when there's not anything I can latch onto.
Fortunately, I think your particular issue is likely going to be or less solved. Though that does assume I don't get into arguments with anybody else. But, so far, I haven't had that particular issue with anybody else.
So, that should be fewer arguments from me. at the very least, I think I can say with relative certainty that there's not going to be encounters that would end up with such vitriol.
Although, to be quite honest with you, I suspect it'll also have me just post lesson general. I don't really like the usual social "hello, let's hang out" types of threats that seem largely prevalent here. I need something to latch onto, in order to start a conversation. It's hard for me to kind of force my way in, without something to use as an excuse of sorts
No.4279
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>>4249>these are the few places I can really socialize with othersOh, BTW, you can also visit
Iara's board! (
https://8ch.net/lounge/)
No.4286
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>>2658Remember its more a guideline than a rule now, the result of my own challenge to its nonenforcement.
>>4279Shameless shilling.
No.4306
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Bumping this thread again, because it's still not being properly addressed, still being ignored, and still leading to troubles that effect others, not just myself.
No.4307
>>4306I suggest, if you have screencaps of anything that you think violated a rule and was not dealt with, now would be a good time to post them.
This way other people have something solid to look at and judge.
No.4308
>>4307When I get home, I guess I can start doing that. I have a couple. Unfortunately a lot of them have been ones that I never bothered saving information on, as, honestly, it struck me as unnecessary at the time. I'm going to start doing it extensively I think at this point, provided I can maintain the attention span for it. It's easy to miss, especially since it's infrequent enough not to create a habit. But, the most recent example with me when Manley made his direct insults which eventually actually did get Moony to warn him. I think I do have that. At the very least, I know for a fact I've got Moony's deleted post.
there is also the problem of course that the lot of this ends up happening on my phone. But I probably could start at least archiving from here.
another larger problem is that I don't know if they're necessarily items that would fit easily within a single screencap. The problem is usually more the incredibly hostile accusations and assumptions that he makes about people. For example, the recent events that made this post. Basically constant hostile assumptions, padded in the claim that it's only suggesting a "possibility".
As though if I were to say you're probably a pedophile that wouldn't be taken as an insult.
No.4309
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Noomin
I'll make this short because I have to go soon, but as far as what you think you should do-I will tell you something similar that I have told Manley before.
It is not your job or responsibility to stand up and protect every person who you think might be getting hurt by someone. You can only protect someone to suchan extent, and eventually, they must protect themselves.
If you think that someone is a victim of something, I would suggest that you simply encourage them to take steps for themselves to do something about it. They have just as much capability as anyone else on this site to hit that report button with a description of what they think is wrong. In this sense, this is the way they can stand up for themselves and protect themselves, and bring a situation out into the open where other people can chime in if they think the mods are not doing enough, or too much, or whatever.
If they take some action into their own hands and report, and they find they are being ignored-well that's what canterlot is for.
We have a system here that works somewhat well, though obviously not perfectly, but it needs to be used.
This is personally a bit frustrating for me because I see people who, don't get me wrong I understand why they do it, just argue and argue and don't reign themselves in and just report. Or they let someone disrupt their thread instead of just telling the person to "stop, don't post that in my thread".
Whoever the thread creator is is ultimately the one who should be able to decide what happens in their thread, and people seem to forget that. Or like I just said, can't reign themselves in.
But now I'm rambling because of my own frustrations.
You do what you think you need to do, but remember that people have just as much a responsibility to bring their own grievances to the table so they can be looked at, preferably when they are happening so threads don't get buried.
No.4310
>>4309In my experience, the report function does next to nothing, and isn't worth bothering with at this point. Certainly the last few times I've used it, Jack ever came of it.
But, thanks, anyway. I don't know if I'd call it a desire to protect people, as much as a desire to make sure they're treated fairly and justly. But, I can agree I should start pushing them to take action for themselves. Though I would like to still offer as much support as I can to that end.
Too many people are afraid of making a fuss, honestly.
No.4313
>>4311Precisely. It's bullshit, and I know at least one person on the staff understands that it is so, given that at one point they did end up actually banning him following this garbage, but, they don't seem willing to actually enforce it now.
>>4312you mean like the last red where it literally happened? The one where you constantly made a ton of hostile accusations and assumptions about his character and the reasons he was disagreeing or otherwise arguing with you? The one where you constantly made personal attacks, the entire way through, with absolutely no punishment to show for it?
No.4325
>>4321I can get more precise stuff when I am home, but, I do not believe he's somehow forgotten what is literally happened only a handful of hours ago.
he consistently berated the other guy claiming that he was afraid of black people because he disagreed with manly, along with numerous accusations of fear-mongering, political partisanship, outright lying, and so on.
Of course, he justified it as claiming it was only a "probably" thing, as though it wouldn't be insulting for me to say he was probably a pedophile.
No.4326
>>4315Like Noonim said, right after I got fed up with you and then Chain called you out on your bullshit and you come back with that incredulous snotty tone you always do after you've started some shit then turn around to play the victim to cover your ass by essentially saying "Me? IIIII didn't do anything wrong, if my behavior was out of line, then obviously the mods would have said something."
Then you go on to justify your behavior toward me and others you do this to by saying we deserved it because our skirts were too short.
