No.6415[Last 50 Posts]
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I don’t know. I’ve wrote this out a few times, and many other, often less mature alternatives, but each attempt ends up being more autistic than the last.
TL;DR I’ve became extremely depressed over the past few days because of not necessarily this, but what it means for me. This place and ponychan opened up a whole new chapter of my life, and took me from someone who was completely socially isolated, to someone with friendships from places like this that have lasted for just over a year, and a girlfriend that’s lasted just under half a year up until now. I feel like, having been banned from this site and essentially 90% of ponychan that I’m being re-isolated.
Although I’ve successfully managed to work my way into other communities since then, taking the lessons from this one and ponychan that I had to learn the hard way due to my previous isolation. I feel like if I’m banned and was to hypothetically also get banned from all of ponychan that I could move on and adjust, but that doesn’t demonise the importance of places like this to me.
Over my two month ban I read a few left wing books, and watched some podcasts and videos out of a sense of intellectual curiosity, but naturally I wasn’t convinced. I think my convictions have just became too strong for anything to be able to convince me to leave them behind at this point. Although while my beliefs haven’t and aren’t going to change my personality over the past year and 3 months since I started posting on ponychan has changed radically, and I feel that in the past two months I’ve learned that places like this are more important to me than winning arguments.
This isn’t an apology, I still feel that my ban was unjustified, and my beliefs aren’t changing, however I understand that regardless of how “true” or “right” my perspective may be, most people won’t accept it, and if I want to be accepted in these circles I have to learn to essentially shut my mouth. I’ll still seethe at your opinions through bared teeth, but I think I now have the sense to not open my mouth about them.
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I support unbanning Mint.>>6415
Mint, I have a couple of suggestions for you. If you do get unbanned, please don't talk at all about racial issues and don't criticize any fellow posters with respect to animal-welfare issues. Do you think you can promise to do that?>Over my two month ban I read a few left wing books, and watched some podcasts and videos out of a sense of intellectual curiosity, but naturally I wasn’t convinced. I think my convictions have just became too strong for anything to be able to convince me to leave them behind at this point.
You have strong priors, so I don't expect that you will change your opinions quickly. But as your acquire new evidence against some of your beliefs, you might gradually update those beliefs, in accordance with Bayes' Theorem.>I still feel that my ban was unjustified
I agree. I think that your posts were not in violation of the written rules, and AFAIK, the mods didn't give you special instructions that you disobeyed.>I’ll still seethe at your opinions through bared teeth
Such an emotional response might indicate that your beliefs are, in part, so-called improper beliefs
("improper" in the sense of https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Improper_belief
-- see also https://www.lesswrong.com/s/7gRSERQZbqTuLX5re
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If everyone else can chill, I don't see the issue per se.
Do not appeal withthe mindset that the modstaff are a troup of prejudiced jerks out to get you, though. Because then you'll just spit in the face of the site and do the same stuff all over again.
I suppose if required, you can always be banned from /townhall/ but I hope there would not be a reason to get political or tackle sensitive themes on /pony/ so that should be a simple excercise to stick with.>>6416>>6415> Rule 8. Do not post threads or posts that are deliberate provocations to certain users, or deliberate provocations concerning the topics of Race, Religion, Nationality, Political Opinion, or Membership of a Particular Social Group;
I feel it's a tricky open point sometimes to set this in a single clear rule, but this becomes a point of common sense. I would be surprised if this would turn out to be a point that Minty was never warned or banned in small amounts for before.
I would argue perhaps that the last ban was sort of influenced by> Rule 6. Do not bait or goad another user into engaging in rule-breaking content. In the event of such an occurrence, the baiting user shall be found in violation of this rule. The baited user shall only be in violation of this rule if the user, after receiving warnings from staff not to engage, chooses to ignore such warnings and engage with the bait instead of reporting or informing the staff. Purposefully allowing oneself to be baited, after being given fair warning by staff, shall constitute a violation of this rule;
And honestly, I think users should not bring up a sensitive theme to someone known to engage into it in the first place.
Anyways, a mod's decision, but if favorable, don't dissappoint me and keep that stuff on /ef/ perhaps.
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>>6416>Do you think you can promise to do that?
That was the main point of my post.>You have strong priors, so I don't expect that you will change your opinions quickly.
My opinions haven’t really changed despite all the evidence I’ve been presented with, but my attitudes have changed radically, if that makes sense.>Such an emotional response might indicate that your beliefs are, in part, so-called improper beliefs
I wasn’t being literal, it was a figure of speech. What I meant was that I’ll disagree strongly, but won’t voice my opinion.>>6417>I think users should not bring up a sensitive theme to someone known to engage into it in the first place.
I was literally told by a mod that if I wanted to talk about skull stuff I should do so on /townhall/, and even then I was only talking about it because someone brought it up, and I agreed to stop when someone asked me to.>keep that stuff on /ef/ perhaps.
I’ve been banned from /ef/ for nearly 6 months because of it.
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I am against unbanning Mint.
You whine about your depression and "seethe" your anger, but never have you acknowledged the suffering you cause others. You don't belong here.
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>>6419>never have you acknowledged the suffering you cause others.
That’s because I very rarely realise that I’m causing anyone that much grief until after the fact when it’s too late.
I deleted that comment on Discord because I thought it upset you, but later on I found out that it didn’t.
I have a hard time gaging how other person are feeling and if I’m upsetting them until it’s explicitly said or it’s painfully clear, again by which time it’s too late. I can’t help, I’m just not good at guessing other people’s feelings or reading between the lines. As someone who’s also upset a lot of people on this site I thought you’d understand that.
I genuinely go in with good intentions, but I’m arrogant, stubborn, and lack a lot of the kind of natural social awareness that most people have. I’ve clearly proven that despite my intentions I can’t control myself and have no natural instinct to hold back or be aware of other people’s feelings during an argument, which is why I’m just going to avoid the issue completely.
My original intention was to avoid the issue before the ban, but I thought that biological discussion on /townhall/, where had specifically been told to go to discuss such things was okay, especially considering that I didn’t bring it up, and I stopped when I was told to do so. NO DISCUSSION OF RACIAL OR BIOLOGICAL ISSUES, I get that now, NONE, REGARDLESS OF THE CONTEXT, EVEN IF IT’S ON /TOWNHALL/, EVEN IF IT’S A MEME, NONE
Again I genuinely go in with good intentions, which is why it’s so hurtful to hear something like that from you. I just can’t control the fact that I’m a bit socially retarded, which is why I’m just going to avoid the issue entirely, regardless of context.
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Yes as a person who has offended many posters on this site i am qualified to state that this is not about how socially retarded you may or may not be or your damaged feelings, it is about your constant disregard for others.
In this thread you complain how you are hurt but nothing about the hurt you cause or how you will try and avoid causing more.
Also, you CAN control yourself and a pledge that you can't right in your appeal shows your lack of consideration for everyone here.
Ive expressed my opinion.
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I'll read and add input when I have time.
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Hmm, I think people can propose to move political themes to /townhall/.
But ket there not be any confusion. Strong arguments like race theories and all, even as a factual theory, have no place in /townhall/ either.
It's hard to imagine you were never warned for stuff you put on /townhall/ before.
If not, moderators take note.
At least you got a strong warning now.> I’ve been banned from /ef/ for nearly 6 months because of it.
Unless you made it really wild, I always assume that /ef/ is still way more open about that stuff.>>6416
Are you like a good enough source to comment on that?
I forget who mods ponychan nowadays.
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So in short, you "tried" seeing how you were in the wrong, disagree with us, say you probably will make no progress in change, and your only offer in regards to helping us not hear your opinions is to "not say them" despite you showing that you don't have the ability to know what is and isn't offensive to others multiple times.
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The road to hell was paved with good intentions, and you can control yourself.
Now if you don't want to, that's a different story.
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I got banned from /ef/ for saying that we should blow up migrant ships, despite the fact that there were literally 3 others people in that thread who said the same thing, only I was banned.>>6428
It’s not necessarily that I can’t control myself, it’s that I find it really difficult, especially considering that I’m more often than not unaware of what is and isn’t allowed or acceptable, unless it’s explicitly said.
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You asked to be banned from /ef because you were tired of being lectured by MK17 and he obliged you. Dont go spinning it to pretend you were treated unfairly there.>unaware of what is and isn’t allowed or acceptable, unless it’s explicitly said.
This might have gained traction except everyone here has "made things explicit" until blue in the face yet you still blame them for not telling you, then you blame autism etc while cheerfully pretending to be a victim and expecting everyone to wipe your nose for you.
You've got some nerve to even ask to return without the slightest hint of remorse for the pain you cause others.
The rules you cited are the old rules, which had been retired before Mint's ban. The current rules (which were in effect at the time of Mint's ban) are on the front page of this website: https://ponyville.us/
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>>6430>Dont go spinning it to pretend you were treated unfairly there.
That’s what pissed MK off and lead to my ban. Prior to that he was okay with me, after I couldn’t enter a thread without him berating me, which as I said was deserved.
I don’t think he wants the whole backstory. That’s what’s relevant.>This might have gained traction except everyone here has "made things explicit"
I was explicitly told by a mod to keep my more controversial biological stuff on /townhall/. “Everyone” told me to keep my shit off pony and stop posting racist stuff, which I did.>the pain you cause others.
I honestly have a hard time imagining how debating brain sizes could hurt someone’s feelings, like I just don’t get how anything like that could hurt someone, but I understand that it does. Which is why I deleted that Discord stuff, and a post I made to you in this thread.
I honestly don’t know what to say other than to repeat myself. I genuinely hold no ill will towards anyone on the site, and I’ve never knowingly hurt someone, although I understand that I have and I am trying to help that. As Rose would say, I have trouble “mentalising”, I find it hard to consider other people’s perspective from an emotional standpoint.
I think I’ve made vast strides since I first met you for example, but this will probably always be something I struggle with.
Thats a bald-faced lie about MK. You can't really remember it that way.
"Skull stuff" is not what your ban was about and not what hurt people. Perhaps you can begin by explaining that you understand why you were banned.
Its past time i stfu.
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You missed the post on /trash/ of him complaining about even though he's better ethically than some kids on a bus they had more money than him and he felt it was unfair.
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>>6438>You're problem is you're narcissism and all the arrogance that comes with that.
My problem is that I agree with you, but I unfortunately can’t help who I am. I think my bad upbringing and no doubt innate things about me have fucked me up for life in that regard. The scary part is that I recognise these traits, but can’t get rid of them, I can only try and deal with them, but the problem is still there.
I feel like l have made a lot of strides, but I can’t change my fundamental nature. I have serious personality issues. Just be grateful that you didn’t know me a year and a half ago before I made any progress.>>6439
To be fair I’ve said similar things in the past, so I can’t blame anyone for not believing me now. I feel like I’ve made a lot of progress, and I’m going to go into this with good intentions, but as I and others have said in this thread, I’m a naturally arrogant, stubborn, and in many ways even unempathetic person.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong 90% of the time, and when I find out I’m generally too arrogant and stubborn to just give up. I feel like I’ve gotten a lot better at controlling my more nasty emotions, but again, I can only control them, they’re still there.
You dont realize how much we are all alike, underneath.
The difference is what we do to control how we channel our drives and filter ourselves to create a more sociable behavior.
Regarding your upbringing, its fine. The problem is what you fill your mind with. Forget extremist manifestos on either side of things and examine the words of the Declaration of Independence and the constitutions Preamble, or probly theres plenty there in your own national documents that paved the way for mine.
You should drop this appeal for now and consider Andrea's words until you dont have any excuses come up in your mind in response. Your appeal has no chance right now, but if you continue to grow maybe later will be better.>>6442
I think you are aware it's the inherent dehumanization in the way
such topics are discussed particularly by recitation of rhetoric and fallacy.>>6440
That was actually one of the most honest and understandable things i think he's ever posted, assuming its the one im thinking of.
Im pretty sure you can relate to the frustration of crooks vs scant rewards for hard work, if not the difficulty of being unemployed on the bus.
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I’m afraid how my mum would react. She’s quick to become hysterical and paranoid over anything that she thinks may affect her children negatively, and she can be a bit of a control freak.
Took a whole year for her to allow me to become properly Vegan, and that was only after she realised that I wasn’t giving up no matter how much she railed against it or argued. She literally broke down crying about how I was going to be hospitalised because of my diet, and this was when she was forcing me to eat meat. She genuinely thought that I was going to be hospitalised and it terrified her.
Same goes with my beliefs. She unironically said that I was going to be recruited by someone like ISIS after I hinted at some of my more (relatively) centrist beliefs. I never talked about the race stuff or anything like what I talk about on here with her because I know how sensitive she is. I don’t know how she’d react if she knew I was a literal Fascist.
She’s also extremely manipulative. For example I tried to argue with her over clothes that I wanted to buy for myself when I got my own money. At first she wouldn’t let me buy them, but then she said that I could choose, but she did it in a way in which it was pretty clear that I had no choice in the matter. If I had said “yes, I’m 19 and think I can dress myself” she would have gone irate and told me about how I have no respect for her, so I was essentially emotionally blackmailed into agreeing with her. And now whenever I say or even hint at wanting to buy my own clothes she’ll say “but you said you didn’t want to”, even though she knows that she was blackmailing me into agreeing with her, she’ll constantly remind me about how I agreed with her. She’s done this with countless things.
Because of this I’ve grown to hide virtually everything about myself from her because of how sensitive and hysterical she can be. The only reason I pushed the Veganism thing was because I felt like I had no choice from a moral perspective, and even that was after nearly a year of hiding from her, because I knew she’d overreact, and she did.
If I was to see a phycologist she’d become aware of all the fucked up stuff I believe in, and this place. She has no idea whatsoever about any of you guys, what I believe, or that I have transgender girlfriend (she’s also extremely transphobic). If something like Veganism could cause her to react so hysterical to the point where she forces me to eat something I consider unethical for a whole year imagine how she might react if she were to find out that my whole life is basically a lie. Especially given how much a control freak she is I could see that damaging me a lot more than what any physiologist might do for me.
If I was to see a physiologist I’d have to be honest about my beliefs, and no one in my IRL life knows anything about me. Again, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that my IRL has became a total lie, or a sort of double life.
I don’t even know where I’d begin. I’ve literally had nightmares about IRL people realising that I live a double life. It’s pretty fucked, and because I’m only 19 and am totally reliant on my control freak of a mum she could do anything.>>6445
That’s what I’m hoping to do.>>6446>Your appeal has no chance right now, but if you continue to grow maybe later will be better.
As I said if I’m not unbanned I can deal with it. I’m sure I’ll be allowed back one day, I just need to gain a consistent record of good behaviour from myself.
>>6446>dehumanization in the way such topics are discussed
I disagree that Mint's posts were dehumanizing.>rhetoric
Are you accusing Mint of being insincere? BecAuse I'm pret sure he sincerely believes what he professes. And if not, what you mean by "rhetoric"?>and fallacy
If committing a logical fallacy were against the rules, we'd all get banned sooner or later.
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You know exactly what rhetoric and fallacy im talking about and your effort to derail into that topic must be testing the someone-else-brought-it-up-so-its-ok fallacy
Belief does not invalidate that its rhetoric, at least as i see it anyway.>we'd all get banned
Truer words have never been said. It is comforting to find agreement.
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I have a problem where i keep posting when i shouldnt for whatever reason
Im referring to the white supremacist nazi rhetoric underlying all of Mint's "convictions" that are fallacy 101 to a T beginning with displacement anxiety, IQ scores and eugenics (skulls fall in this part) as a basis to violate rights of populations based on color and/or ethnicity.
There, now i've taken your bait and raised all the issues Mint can't resist responding to and it's all my fault. I hope youre happy anon.
Btw Mint im out of line in every word of this post, do NOT answer any of this. Its trouble.
New topic: ban lost pony.
Edit: dammit im sposed to be washing dishes, not doing this.
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Like, what? Are you incapable of understanding a simple few sentences or am i genuinely unable to compose them to mean what i wish to say?
I really can't tell. It's like two ships passing in the night, for us.
>>6439>(and he is willing and able to act thusly)
The arrogant attitude he exhibits with those lines indicates that he is not really likely to to actually follow through with that cause he doesn't care about the spirit of the rules. If he's too arrogant to care than that's reason enough why he shouldn't be unbanned>>6443
Those aren't really "part of your nature" and they can
be helped. Arrogance isn't an innate thing, it's an attitude
and attitudes can change as well, so long as you have the spine for it. Which you can also develop.
>>6455>cause he doesn't care about the spirit of the rules. If he's too arrogant to care
Is that really arrogance though? Would you say that the Double Irish is arrogant or simply a clever way of arbitraging different tax regimes?>>6455>he doesn't care about the spirit of the rules.
Are you sure? Maybe he just has a different understanding of what the spirit is. Mint has a very different worldview than most of us here, and I expect that would inform his understanding of what the spirit of the rules is.
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First of all I just looked up the definition of arrogance, and I honestly don’t think I fit into it.>having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
I’m fully aware that I’m not special, I know that at best I’m slightly more intelligent than most, but to no extreme that would make me unique. According to my beliefs I’m a degenerate in many ways, and that’s something I struggle with. I hold my opinions with arrogance, but I know that in many ways I’m a pretty trashy person.
My problem is more that I think I’m a flawed person, but I think many other people are outright bad. I don’t have an inflated sense of myself, it just seems that way because I’m so judgmental of others, but that doesn’t I don’t also judge myself.
Most people actually like me IRL, and I’m basically a teachers pet despite the fact that I’m pretty judgemental of the people around me, because I’m extremely polite and don’t voice my opinions about people. I still look down on some people as stupid or immoral, but I’m the first guy to hold a door open for them or apologise over something I accidentally did to them. My attitude towards them didn’t change, but my behaviour did.
I just need to find a way to translate that into online political stuff, so I’ll still have the same opinions I do now, but I’ll behave differently.>>6456>I expect that would inform his understanding of what the spirit of the rules is.
I find it difficult to imagine someone genuinely getting upset over political issues because I’ve never got upset over something like a race and IQ debate, or just about any other political issue.
Then again I can get really depressed when people show complete apathy towards Veganism, but that’s less of a political thing to me and more misanthropy at how someone could just discount the genocide and torture of literally billions of sentient beings as a joke or irrelevant, and then participate in it. But I suppose there’s some crossover.>>6457
I’d be endangering literally every I have if I did that because of how unpredictable and hyperbolic she can be.
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>I'm not arrogant
>I have the moral high ground because other people eat meat
Educate yourself on basic Vegan ethics. I know of literally no Vegans who think all meat eaters are immoral or even necessarily less moral than Vegans.
If you’re talking about a vacuum where two people are exactly the same in every way and one is Vegan and the other isn’t then the person actively going against 99% of society to pursue a lifestyle that seeks to reduce the suffering they cause to animals as much as possible is obviously the better person, not to say the meat eater is a bad person, they may even be a good person depending on their beliefs and ethical principles.
Veganism is only one way to measure someone’s morality, there’s countless other things you have to take into consideration, and as this video states, intent matters. So you can’t just universally say that Vegans are better than meat eaters, as a average yes, but you have to make that distinction.
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>you need to educate yourself to fit my proper moral compass
>I'm not arragant though
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Yeah, it’s pretty arrogant to make bases assumptions about a complex set of moral beliefs that you know virtually nothing about.
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>I determine if I'm better than someone off of a moral code that's subjective to only myself
>I'm not arragant though
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Literally all moral codes are subjective.>I don’t rape therefore I’m better than someone who, all else being equal does.<Wow, you think your better than people who rape just because your subjective moral system says rape is bad, what a arrogant prick.>I don’t needlessly contribute to the death and torture of literally ~200 animals a year, therefore I’m better than someone who, all else being equal does.<Wow, you think you’re better than people who don’t needlessly kill hundreds of animals each year, despite the fact that science has come to the conclusion that humans can live and thrive doing otherwise, just because your subjective moral system values all sentient life, not just creatures that look like you, what a arrogant prick.
This is literally the level of argument you’re on.
Yes, all else held equal someone who doesn’t needlessly contribute to the torture and death of hundreds of animals a year or rape is better than someone who does. Does that mean that all non-vegans or even rapists are bad people, no, it depends on the circumstances.
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I don't actively seek to justify my morality to "prove" that I'm better than someone else. Be they racially or dietarily different. It's like the reason you're disliked from various areas is your constant desire to be morally "better" than others. And complaining when things don't go your way because it isn't "fair" based off of how good of a boy you are according to you.
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>>6466>based off of how good of a boy you are according to you.
You don’t think I’m a good boy.
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I think you believe you're good.
1. You are not more intelligent than others and 2. thats not how you determine the value of life.>claims to hide this shit in public by opening doors but here in this appeal i accuse those judging me of being rapists and animal murderers and so its ok to proponent nazi selection on human populations without it being offensive
Seems you kinda took care of any chance you might have had.
Do you see how your posts are offensive and confirm the arrogance youre accused of?
You think you are, that much is true.
But you're not. >>6470
You know shit's dire when I agree wholeheartedly with lp
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I wasn’t criticising him over animal ethics, I was defending myself from his mischaracterisation of my beliefs by pointing out the flaws in his logic.>>6470>i accuse those judging me of being rapists
I didn’t accuse anyone of anything. He attacked my position and I defend it by using an analogy that pointed out the flaws in his logic.>Do you see how your posts are offensive and confirm the arrogance youre accused of?
Look at, >>6460
He mischaracterised my beliefs in a post that was clearly meant to attack me. I defended my position and pointed out that he was ignorant of Vegan morality and therefore shouldn’t make broad sweeping statements about it.
I defended myself, he came at me and made assumptions about things he’s unaware off, but I’m arrogant?
Plus several people in this thread have called me immoral.
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My only goal here was to prove you can't resist speaking on sensitive topics and claim superiority because your opinion says so. Basically refuting your half hearted promise of keeping shit bottled up.
>>6472>flaws in his logic
Flaws in your own logic, you mean. You 100% proved his point: you cannot resist inflammatory topics.
Further your words show that you think being right is the most important thing above all else. This is the root of megalomania. Somehow YOU are qualified to make life-and-death judgments about people based on your own skewed values.
I agree that food animals are treated awful. The solution is NOT to treat people the same based on it. Thats just sociopathic.
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So you came here to call me arrogant, but really you were intentionally trying to bait me into fucking up so I’d stay perma banned? But I’m the bad guy, I’m arrogant and you’re not? You actively tried to sabotage me, but I’m in the wrong for defending myself?
I said I wasn’t going to talk about any political or controversial stuff, that’s it, I didn’t say that wasn’t going to disagree with anyone or not defend myself when someone was misrepresenting me.
I didn’t attack you, I didn’t bring up anything controversial, I didn’t say you were a bad person or lay any kind of moral judgment on you, I simply defend myself because you (knowingly) misrepresented my beliefs and opinions, but everyone here thinks that I’m the arrogant guy who should be banned?
If you actually read my post I didn’t claim superiority, in fact I explicitly said “Veganism is only one way to measure someone’s morality, there’s countless other things you have to take into consideration, and as this video states, intent matters. So you can’t just universally say that Vegans are better than meat eaters, as a average yes, but you have to make that distinction.” How is that me “claiming moral superiority” over anyone?
And I wasn’t making an argument for my morality in that post, I was simply refuting your mischaracterisation of me, by giving a fairly nuanced answer to your simplistic jab.
If people can’t understand that I was only defending myself against what he has just admitted to be baiting, which is actually against the site rules, then I don’t know what to say. I’m expected to just sit idly by as people knowing bait me and try to get me banned by misrepresenting my beliefs, and if I try to defend myself I’m called arrogant, immoral, and banned? What’s the point in talking to you people if you’re going to ban me not for bringing up any controversial political issue, which I’ve agreed not to do, but for defending myself against a misrepresentation of my beliefs by someone who’s admitted to being a bad actor?
My arrogance tells me that none of your opinions are worth much and that I should just ignore you, my humility says that I should give you a chance, but this is what I get when I try to negotiate with you. Vindictive posts like this from a guy who’s whole internet presence seems to revolve around making lolcows of autistic people online don’t drive me away from the former.
Losty is my only friend here. I’ll talk to him on Discord. I don’t want to be welcomed back if this is how I’m going to be treated.>>6474
You actually care about me despite dragging me through the coals, virtually no one else here seems to. I’ll talk to you privately later after I’ve gotten out of my shower.
>>6472>Plus several people in this thread have called me immoral.
You know, when you go on about others being morally inferior to you for not being vegan, then it comes off as if you're using veganism as a cheap ploy to give yourself moral license to bigotry.
It just makes you come off as insincere and untrustworthy.
>>6470>You are not more intelligent than others
Mint is no Einstein, but he isn't literally the dumbest person in the world. There are other people who are dumber than Mint.>>6472>I wasn’t criticising him over animal ethics, I was defending myself from his mischaracterisation of my beliefs by pointing out the flaws in his logic.
You shouldn't have done that, especially not on this board. You likely just ruined your chances of your appeal getting accepted this time. Next time, try harder to keep your mouth shut on such things. It can be hard to resist when someone is wrong on the Internet, but you must learn self-control.
What you said in >>6461
sounds rather combative, e.g.:>Educate yourself on basic Vegan ethics.
Your tone is probably what a lot of people see as a big problem.
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>>6475>I don’t want to be welcomed back if this is how I’m going to be treated.
if you know this why write so many, many
words to try to be allowed back into a place where you clearly can't peacefully exist in?
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...i've been trying to stay out of this, but feel it would be unfair of me to do that
Minty, i really, really want you to come back. i truly do... i mean that very, very earnestly.
but, you aren't sorry, you don't seem to understand why you were banned, and don't accept it.
in this very thread, we haven't managed to stay on subject, and have moved into philosophical debate.
if this were solely my decision, i would want you to come back, on your own terms.
but, minty... look at this thread. i understand, a lot of ponies here weren't very kind to you. your perspectives though, your arguments, they combat some of these peoples very existences. And it doesn't seem like that conflict is something you can avoid, even if you put your heart to it, as this thread has demonstrated.
i'm not sure what else to say. i'd like to talk to you in private more, if you want... but i wish this thread went better than it did.
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>>6485>your perspectives though, your arguments, they combat some of these peoples very existences.
Hol' up, Mint has some Nazi-like political views, but I don't think he literally wants to gas anyone or otherwise end their existence!
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nobody said he wanted to kill anyone, just that he regards us as inferior and less deserving than him due to his beliefs. so sure, at least he doesnt wanna gas us. guess we should get over it
You have a big fat strawmanning problem. Moony didnt say what you say he did.
This is you too?>>6478
I didnt say Mint is the dumbest person yet you say i did.
Please stop doing that. Its really, really unfriendly.>>6475
This isn't a good place to come looking for love considering your "convictions". If thats not reason enough to wish to deconstruct them, then you need to find another community.
Oh yes, bold choice of image.
>>6487>nobody said he wanted to kill anyone
:>combat some of these peoples very existences.
To combat someone's existence means to seek their death. When people die, they stop existing. And there is no way to stop existing without dying. It is the meaning of "death".>>6488>Moony didnt say what you say he did.
I copied my quotation of Moony directly from his post. My quotation is character-for-character identical to what was in his post.>>6488>I didnt say Mint is the dumbest person
Well what did you mean by >>6470>You are not more intelligent than others
If Mint is not more intelligent than others, doesn't that mean that he is a dumbest person?
You're arguing in bad faith.
Mint doesn't need you defending him, he's an adult who can take care of himself.
You are not helping.
so unless i am physically murdered i should shrug off literally anything else because hey, i still exist
ok sure w.e man
nobody needs to embellish it, its mostly direct quotes. he admits to it himself even so i dont see your point.
if there was a poster here who went around slamming autistic people as all stupid and inferior how long do you think that'd fly? you think Mint would be cool with it because its not seeking his death, merely undermining his existence as a person based on one thing?
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>>6490> he's an adult
Is he? I thought he was like 16.
Is he? I honestly don't know.
But my point remains, he doesn't need someone strawmanning for him.
It's less that I feel threatened or unsafe around him and more that every thread develops a high probability of changing it's topic to "Minty had controversial opinions". I honestly can't recall anything about him besides "Nazi" and "vegan". I can't remember him voicing an interest in any other topics. Hell, veganism is a pretty non-controversial topic for most people, but he finds a way to inject it into the most unrelated conversation in the most disruptive way. Then once everything that can possibly be said on the topic of "Minty has [two] controversial opinions" has been said it immediately starts up again and it is the singular topic of the site from the moment he wakes up until he goes to bed, and heaven forbid people try to ignore him and switch to a different topic or thread because he will follow, because people are talking about something besides just how controversial Minty's two opinions are.
It isn't the opinions, it's the disruption, and that is a problem we have had in the past and have also been forced to take extreme actions regarding.
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>>6485>but, you aren't sorry, you don't seem to understand why you were banned, and don't accept it.
Well tbh I don't understand why Mint was banned either. Looking the post he was banned for (>>>/townhall/4585
), the only rule violation I see was being a little rude in saying:>it’s not too fucking complicated.
But it's not any more rude than, e.g., >>>/townhall/4584
(who replied to Mint with just
), which wasn't punished at all.>>6496^this
I think Mint has finally internalized that he needs to shut up about his racism. If only he can do the same for his veganism, he might be ready to rejoin the site.
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And to appeal in private and not make a thread about it
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I made replies to everyone else’s post, but decided to delete them. No one cares about how I feel anyway, and I genuinely believe that at this point I have to care just about as little about what you think of me if I want to change.
Edit: I freaked out and couldn’t help myself. Fuck it, I’m banned anyway.>>6485
I’ll re-add you on Discord of you want, but I don’t think this is the place for me. Mint horse#9976.>>6477
The funny thing is that the exact kind of arguments that I use to justify segregation everyone else in this thread uses to justify literal genocide. “Animals are less intelligent than we are, inferior to us, and not human, therefore it’s okay to eat them.” How people don’t see that massive hypocrisy will forever boggle my mind.>inb4 “you’re comparing Black people to animals”
My point was that whether a sentient creature is Black or White, human or not you don’t have a right to torture and kill them for food, especially if you’re going to judge me for using the exact same kinds of arguments, only for segregation, not unnecessary genocide.
Why can’t people introspect half as much as their demanding of me and realise that the kind of logic they chastise me for (E.G. less intelligent, inferior, different) they use to justify the perpetual genocide of literally billions of animals.
As far as I’m concerned if you’re not Vegan you shouldn’t have a right to chastise me for being racist. Stop contributing towards the killing and torturing of sentient animals based on them being inferior and different than you, and then we can talk about segregation.
Anyone who thinks that it’s okay to kill another sentient being based on them being inferior or different than you are, while simultaneously believing that it’s wrong for me to advocate for segregation has to take a long look in the fucking mirror.
What I advocate for isn’t even half as bad as what you actually do, every single fucking day, and don’t think for a second that your logic for treating them any differently isn’t basically indistinguishable from mine.
And I have the courtesy to still consider you a good person, because I think you’re just ignorant, but you don’t share that courtesy with me. You don’t even recognise the fact that I don’t consider you to be less moral for not being Vegan, because quite frankly I think you just haven’t thought about it, and I can understand and empathise with that because I also used to be ignorant and unaware.
I’m sick of taking moral advice from people who still haven’t realised that it’s wrong to kill and torture sentient beings just because they’re inferior or different than you are.
Imagine how arrogant you’d have to be to believe that other sentient beings should be tortured and killed for your taste pleasure. Living, breathing things, with their own thoughts, emotions, wants and needs, etc, just like you should be tortured and killed because you want a fucking cheese burger. That’s the kind of value you place on those you consider to be inferior or different to you, a fucking McDonald’s cheese burger.
But I’m expected to listen to people who are more than twice as old as me, but haven’t yet discovered that life is more important than your taste pleasurable about morality and arrogance? Some of you people are well into your 30s and 40s, and yet the idea that a life of a pig, an animal more intelligent and emotionally aware than a dog, is more valuable than taste pleasurable hasn’t crossed your mind.>>6498>Looking the post he was banned for (>>>/townhall/4585), the only rule violation I see was being a little rude in saying:
I was banned for disagreeing with the general orthodoxy. Not because I’m a bad person or my facts are flawed, but pretty clearly just for disagreeing with the mainstream conception of genetics and race. But I’m closed minded, or at least that’s what I’m told.>If only he can do the same for his veganism, he might be ready to rejoin the site.
Why can’t people just accept that killing and torturing innocent sentient beings is wrong when unnecessary? Like is that such a fucking head scratcher for most people, or are they just to lazy to not cause needless suffering on a genocidal scale.
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if we are all so terrible then why do you want to come back at all
>>6500>are they just to lazy to not cause needless suffering on a genocidal scale.
That might be it, honestly. I'm
I'm not gonna claim a moral high ground on being a carnivore that doesn't support segregation, but with the knowledge that most of us are at least
omnivorous and probably literally none of us support something like segregation, is this actually somewhere you'd want to post?
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I said I was leaving. But I’d still appreciate it if you considered my post.
Surely people can’t this lazy and apathetic.
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I have considered yours. I read Man’s Search For Meaning on the request of Rose, The American Revolution: Pages From a Negro Worker's Notebook for my leftist teacher, and I’ve read some of, and am going to read the rest Black Like Me on request of Losty.
I also recently subscribed to Vaush, who’s whole YouTube career is basically centred around attacking “Nazis”, and I watch everyone of ContraPoints’s videos on day one of them coming out.
I’ve read a lot of leftist stuff and watched more leftist videos than probably a lot of people here. I’m familiar with your philosophy and arguments, I just disagree.
If you want me to read or watch something just ask and I will, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to change my mind.>>6505
Bottom of this one, >>6475
and also the top of the one you originally replied to.
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>>6500>Why can’t people just accept that killing and torturing innocent sentient beings is wrong when unnecessary?
Many people here wonder why you
can't just accept that racially discriminating against people is wrong. You just have to accept that different people have different values than you. I'd say that most people here think that livestock should be treated better than they are on factory farms. But they might not see that as a sufficient reason to boycott the meat industry. And they might accept killing farm animals for food as an acceptable trade-off.
And, as >>6496
mentioned, your biggest problem is that your militant advocacy of veganism is disruptive
I think you're a good person at heart, Mint, but if you want to post here on this site, you really need to conform your behavior to the social norms of this site. It's okay that you have different opinions, but people don't want to hear you talking about veganism nonstop 24/7.
the thing you never grasp is that most of us have stuff going on in our lives, and we come here to hang out and shit, not be lectured by an arrogant teenager. im sure you have the time to read far
more than me, yeah; you're unemployed. this weird thing you have of "you cant tell me not to say this til you write a 1000 word response with referencing so shut up" is very dull and people lack the energy to engage you in it, especially after you tripled how often you do it. we just wanna hang out, not go to debate club. you disagree with x views? then just keep it to yourself. people don't go into threads chastising you for your evangelical veganism, even as you force it in their faces.
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>>6507>You just have to accept that different people have different values than you.
Yeah, I’m aware of that, I just have trouble with actually doing it.>It's okay that you have different opinions, but people don't want to hear you talking about veganism nonstop 24/7.
As I said, I just can’t help but argue with people whenever something like this comes up. I don’t know why, I just feel an extreme compulsion to argue.>>6508>you disagree with x views? then just keep it to yourself.
As I said, I don’t know why, but I have trouble letting stuff like this go. I genuinely feel a really strong compulsion to respond, which is why I want to leave.
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>>6510>As I said, I just can’t help but argue with people whenever something like this comes up. I don’t know why, I just feel an extreme compulsion to argue.
Please try to work on this. This is probably the biggest thing keeping you from being allowed to rejoin the site.
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>>6511>Please try to work on this.
That’s why I want to leave. Clearly being here isn’t helping with that, and I have to work out my problems somehow.
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Seeing that OP is in agreement that he probably shouldn't be here currently, the thread should probably be locked.
>>6510>cant not push veganism here
You claim you resist irl so you are lying about one or the other. Which is it?
Justifying Nazism because you are Vegan is a false equivalency. If you intend to help mistreated animals, then making meat-eaters bitter by calling them worse than Nazis is simply not going to persuade anyone to stop eating them.
You are basically saying that since you only murder plants, you may then do any crimes you wish. Morality simply doesnt work that way.>>6514
I think his logic is just as bad. The fallacies that run in his head are enough to drive me to madness, for example IQ scores being taken as ranking of human value, even after
agreeing that IQ scores are a product of privilege not actual intelligence potential: taking the centuries-long oppression of Africa's population by western powers as justification to dismiss them as less than animals
and THEN whine he cant understand how we dont find being called murderers motivates us to rally around his Vegan banner.
Mint, saying you are better because you abstain and shout insults is like watching a rape and feeling superior because you didnt participate.
If you feel you have a duty not to eat animals, then not eating them does not make you virtuous. Preaching violence against humans makes you evil whether you eat animals or not.
No one here wants to be accused of murder by the lowest form of moral trash that has ever walked the planet. By justifying Hitler you participate in his crime. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Yes, i think above all what annoys me about Mint is his "logic".
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>>6515>You claim you resist irl so you are lying about one or the other. Which is it?
It’s not that I resist IRL, it’s that I don’t have any stigma IRL so there’s nothing for me to resist. Plus there’s a big difference between formulating a wall of text online and talking IRL. IRL you can’t just babble on uncontrollably, there’s a constant back and fourth of each person having a sentence or two each, rather than a few paragraphs.>for example IQ scores being taken as ranking of human value, even after agreeing that IQ scores are a product of privilege not actual intelligence potential:
I think it’s a bit of both.>By justifying Hitler you participate in his crime.
I’ve moved away from Hitler for awhile now. I’m more interested in lesser known figures, who didn’t kill anyone, now.
I just don’t know what to think about the Hitler thing anymore. All I’ll say is that if half of what you believe about him is true then I agree with your moral judgment of him. I’m not going to lie by saying that I any strong opinion of him, I just think it’s better if I left it behind me.
Sounds like progress. Several people hope you return when you are ready.
I understand the desire to leave but the compulsion to stay. A lot of that feeling is misplaced anger towards people you feel treated you unfairly, and the need to feel not-excluded.
It took me a while to sort that out but >>6508
People are here to hang out. To feel comaraderie and chat and feel good. They are not here to sort out morality or politics or be lectured, accused, or argued with. They want you to be chill.
You haven't been chill. Its really that simple. When you can genuinely BE chill here, maybe try again.
Maybe you can search for information online to help you?
There are certainly others with this problem too. From a quick Googling:https://old.reddit.com/r/self/comments/21qeij/im_addicted_to_arguing_on_the_internet_i_wish_i/
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Sorry, for taking so long to respond. I thought you’d respond to me on Discord first.>People are here to hang out.
I understand that, but I genuinely find it really hard to control myself when I have a disagreement with someone.
it basically describes how I feel perfectly. It may sound petty, but not making my point can drive me up the wall with anxiety. I just feel like I have to post.>You haven't been chill. Its really that simple. When you can genuinely BE chill here, maybe try again.
Brazie suggested that I leave the site for awhile, and I think she’s right. I need to learn how to just be chill until I’m ready to come back, because right now I clearly can’t just be chill.>>6519
Yeah thanks, that explains how I feel perfectly.
I think lp is really encapsulating the reason that Mint comes off as basically full of it.
Contrary to how chain frames it and this disengenuous anon, the flinsy, fallacy filled logic and shifting inconsist reasoning Mint uses to justify his bigotry at anyone makes it transparent
that his reasoning is motivated to justify his sentiments
and knee-jerk gut feelings.
It comes of as a particularly narcissistic kind of misanthropy (which a lot of misanthropy is). Which is why I am doubtful of his sincerity. Like veganism being used as a rationalization for a knee jerk narcissistic misanthropy.
That, in turn, makes it hard to trust that he wouldn't
just continue the overall pattern of behavior that led to the ban in the first place.
Honestly, you can't expect people to be all tgat welcoming when in context of all this it comes off like all you want to do is use people here as your own personal ego satisfying masturbatory punching bags
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>>6525>veganism being used as a rationalization for a knee jerk narcissistic misanthropy.
I actually got into Veganism before I became really right wing. But mu Veganism is definitely a major contributor to my misanthropy.>use people here as your own personal ego satisfying masturbatory punching bags
That’s honestly exactly how I feel. I genuinely can’t help myself.
A lot of that undoubtedly comes from narcissism, but think there are other issues at play. Either way it’s a problem. I shouldn’t be so concerned over disagreements.
And as I said I’m leaving, because even I don’t trust myself. Doesn’t matter how I feel now, I know I’ll be driven crazy if anyone was to try and argue with me again. I just have to state my point.
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>>6415>90% of ponychan
You're only banned from 1 board.
You can talk on literally all boards besides /ef/.
You just choose not to / cant strike up a conversation that isnt about politics.
(Edit reply: crossovers are fun!)>>6513
Probly best, unless a mod feels the need to wrap it up or something.
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Its a cross over episode.
Why do you continue?
Its clear that /pol is 90% of Mint's perception of our pony homes. Unless your sophistry can provide another theory that reconciles the facts.
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It probably just feels
like he is banned from 90% of the site to him, because its the only board he could just run on and on about his racial prejudice and belittle anyone who dosnt conform to his individual world view, make every thread about himself and his belifes, and it not be spacifcly
against the rules.
Since thats 90% of what he talks about, taking that away feels like 90% of the site is missing.
Its kind of telling that the last warning i gave him about posting nazi memes and slurs for jews on /oat/ would be his last
warning, slowed him down from posting hugely. I dont think he wants to get perma'd from another site. Keep that foot in the door.
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/ef/ is basically 90% of ponychan. Maybe 90% is a bit hyperbolic, but if you measured by posts per day it would probably be something like 76%, with /oat/ being 13%, and 11% for every other board.>>6533
All the cool kids post on /ef/, and that’s where all the good threads are made.
But seriously, given my performance here I’m probably not ready to be unbanned from /ef/. I suggest you read, https://old.reddit.com/r/self/comments/21qeij/im_addicted_to_arguing_on_the_internet_i_wish_i/
I don’t know why, but I honestly can’t help myself and feel a strong need
to argue with people over political disagreements.
Until I can sort that out and genuinely learn when and how to drop something that I know will turn sour for me it’s probably a good idea that I get unbanned from either site. I just don’t know how I’d fix myself in that regard.
Look, you can post that reddit link all you want, but the answer is still "Cool motive, still murder"
You have said half a dozen times you're going to go until you can control yourself, so leave.
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>>6534>a strong need to argue with people over political disagreements.
Perhaps it is yourself you are trying to convince by screaming so loudly. Why, just look at all that fake number shit you just dropped.
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I was going to wait until this thread was over to leave.
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I dont need to read anything to know your not ready, because if i thought you were ready, i would have lifted the ban.
Reguardless, i think if you just learned not to shove your beliefs in other peoples faces consistently, especially when they are directly asking you not to, life would be a lot easier.
Very few people actually give a shit what your beliefs are, they just dont need you making every single thread about them.
And you do shit like go into threads that specifically
state "this isnt a thread to debate 'X' " and start debating it and giving "counter arguments" and shit.
Then very worst of all, you do so unapologetically. You sit there and listen to people as they tell you your offending/upsetting/annoying/hurting them, and you say "no im not" and explain why they are "wrong"... As if you have any authority at all to tell people how they should
Idk man, its been explained to you over and over and over, by dozens of people across 2 sites... And you just argue and argue and refuse to just take their word for it, that yes, you are indeed being a massive dick head.
Literally all you've ever had to say in those situations was "whoops sorry, i didnt mean to upset you" and end it there
without the "but
"; but it seems as though that concept eludes you. This thread itself is a prime example.
Thus, here we are.
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Yeah, that’s exactly why I also believe that I’m ready to go back to either site. I clearly need to learn to empathise with people better, or at least understand that while I may not agree with them or even understand why they’re upset, I should just shut my mouth anyway.
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Do you have any idea how much i have to filter myself to not piss off everyone here? You better get a filter before you come back.>>6538
I think your participation while dead-on is not helping this thread die.
Btw since im already posting too much today like as bad as Mint, anyway MK is there anything i can ever do to earn your forgiveness. I regret everything and miss your conversation so much. I have garden stuff to talk about. Give me another chance someday, please.
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>>6539>I should just shut my mouth anyway.
thats probably the best idea you've had in months.
Prob should just back off and do some thinking on it.
Maybe next time try doing this without the whole "I apologize for nothing" angle.
The worlds not inside your head dude, and sometimes you need to take other peoples word for it, especially when its about how you are making them feel, because even if you think they are "wrong" its an objective truth.
You gotta make up with me to hang out on /canterlot, its a rule.
Mint please request a lock. Im pretty sure you and MK can discuss offsite things elsewhere, and you know this appeal's public discussion has run its course. Its going in circles and im a worser sperg than you today. Go think on things quietly.
Always nice to see you MK. Glad you are still kicking.
Ok self ban time for me on this board before someone does it to me. See yall.
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>>6541>especially when its about how you are making them feel,
I think I just need to accept that feeling are subjective, and therefore that other people’s feelings that conflict with mine aren’t wrong, they’re just different, and I don’t need to make a big deal of that.>>6542
Yeah, this is me asking for it to be locked right now.
>>6543>I think I just need to accept that feeling are subjective, and therefore that other people’s feelings that conflict with mine aren’t wrong, they’re just different
Also I suggest you read that LessWrong sequence on fake beliefs I linked earlier:https://www.lesswrong.com/s/7gRSERQZbqTuLX5re
Many people hold many 'beliefs' that actually more like cheering for a sports team (or booing the opposing sports team) than proper beliefs.