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 No.12129

File: 1686869819894.png (393.74 KB, 739x1024, 739:1024, large.png) ImgOps Google

This is a peaceful thread for those without political opinions.

Perhaps for those who don't have opinions about the LGBT agenda and pedophiles or groomers.  Or climate change.  Or which drugs should be allowed.  Or about the Jewish ethnicity.  Or Christian freedom and family values.  For those who have nothing to say about the poor or systems of economy. For those with don't comment on feminism or whether someone's appearance is valid.  For ponies who are not woke, but also don't need to have wokeness banned.

When you don't have political opinions, you can think critically and evaluate with reason and rationality.  You can be respectful of all the various opinions that exist without offending others.  It is a very nice goal, I think.

 No.12135

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>>12129

I tend to question any opinion I form, and I try not to hold opinions about things.

 No.12136

Too bad your OP seems kinda self contradictory about what exactly constitutes political neutrality.

Thos OP is like trying to tell someone "don't tnink about penguins" and expecting them to actually not think about penguins.

 No.12137

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>>12136

On a scale of 0-100, with 0 being completely uncertain and 100 being completely certain, how certain are you of your opinion?

 No.12138

File: 1687046331891.gif (1.49 MB, 503x502, 503:502, dc740f1b12c5bb813144dcc3b3….gif) ImgOps Google

>>12136
>>12129
you're a wolf
and you're a wolf

by /townhall/ law you must now make out

 No.12139

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>>12135
>I tend to question any opinion I form, and I try not to hold opinions about things.

Very good.  Although I try, also, to not have an opinion on whether others should have unquestioned opinions.

Although unquestioned opinions are probably things picked up from surrounding culture.  They aren't a problem if surrounding culture is benign.  But gosh, then you might start to think, we need to keep harmful ideologies out of surrounding culture, and then you'd think we need to regulate the expression of opinions in public spaces.  And you're going to need to opinions to know which opinions are harmful.  But then you are going down a bad path.

Better to say unquestioned and hateful opinions are fine, too.

 No.12140

File: 1687050947445.png (177.45 KB, 406x599, 406:599, socrates3.png) ImgOps Google

>>12139

Ah yes, good points. We ought not to have opinions about whether others should or should not have certain opinions, even the so-called unquestioned variety.

I wonder if there is such a thing as a truly benign culture. Sure, we can compare one culture to another and say that this one is more wholesome than this other one... or we can compare one event with another or one situation to another - to determine what is benign.. But as you say, it is futile to make an effort towards making a culture benign because then you have stopped seeing things as they are and gone off down an illusory path. I might even say to leave how things play out to Zeus, if it weren't likely to be taken wrongly by most in our modern age.

I think I know what you mean, but is it not also an opinion to say that unquestioned and hateful opinions are fine, too?

 No.12141

>>12140
>is it not also an opinion to say that unquestioned and hateful opinions are fine, too?

Not that I am saying the state need have any policy, but the basic notion that I/we should minimize force or rules in dealing with others might be a political opinion.

When it comes to culture, it does seem one person's repressive society is another's perfect one.  But sometimes I feel these aren't the same people (eg. slavery is much more likely to be looked on fondly if not applied to you; opinions about society can vary by your station).  But there might be ways to get past that.

 No.12142

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>>12141

>Not that I am saying the state need have any policy, but the basic notion that I/we should minimize force or rules in dealing with others might be a political opinion.

Right. Perhaps any opinion regarding use (or non-use) of force might be considered a political opinion. So, perhaps it is best to not think in terms of force. Rules, however, seem a little bit different to me, as they may be helpful in keeping a person on the path towards virtue and harmony. Everyone, however, thinks that they know what virtue and harmony is, as we are all endowed with an affinity towards these things at birth...

It can be quite the perplexing problem, and maybe there are no final answers.

 No.12143

>>12142
>Rules, however, seem a little bit different to me

I think of rules and force as being related, in that anything properly called a rule has, directly or indirectly, a ruler behind it who will use force to maintain order.

It's a bit semantics, but without force there are suggestions and recommendations, but not rules.

Or do you think I'm being too black-and-white.  I do tend that way when it comes to authorities.

 No.12144

>>12143

I see. That's an interesting point. Are there not different types of rules? I can think of some. In regard to oneself, we can stand outside ourself and impose what we think best on ourselves, and this might be called self-discipline. Someone who wants to improve themselves might use this kind of rule.

On the other hand, there are rules which we may choose to commit ourselves to following, as it is freely chosen and tends to be based on a decision made by the heart, rather than standing outside oneself and imposing the rule one oneself. For example, someone freely and voluntarily taking religious vows to live a just and holy life might fall into this category. (Or, alternatively, perhaps a scientist who wishes to devote themselves to helping humanity through their research.)

Another type of rule might be one that arises in a moment of reflection or meditation, although this might be more appropriately called "inisght." This would be like a decision or realization you have in the present, and so there is no enforcer or commitment necessary. This is probbaly the purest form of a rule.

Then there are recommendations or suggestions that other people we respect give to us and which we try to follow because we respect or perhaps even just admire the other person. For example, a teacher we respect might give us some rules to follow, which we do because we see them as a good or virtuous person.

Lastly, there may be rules imposed on us by others, through the use of threat or force. But what do you think... given the other types of rules, do you think this last category of rules more or less illusory than the other kinds of rules? According to the Stoics, for example, this last kind of rule, especially, ought to have no power over us. I think that if one follows some of the other kinds of rules for a while that they must necessarily follow (or eventually follow) the rules in the last category, if the rules in the last category are just.

 No.12145

>>12144
So you would see something like "as a rule, I love dogs" as the most ruley-rule.

Suppose enough to say there exists a meaning of the word rule which involves external authoritarian force.  In those political opinions I'm allowed to have, I wish for these kinds of rules to be minimized, however I understand if any such rule exists it must be obeyed without question, as a principle of authoritarianism.

 No.12146

>>12145

>So you would see something like "as a rule, I love dogs" as the most ruley-rule.

In regard to rules, that sounds about right, if a rule can be ruley.

>In those political opinions I'm allowed to have, I wish for these kinds of rules to be minimized, however I understand if any such rule exists it must be obeyed without question, as a principle of authoritarianism.

I think I understand what you're saying. But is not wishing for a certain type of rule to be minimized a political opinion, as well? If rules are to be obeyed without question, then - what do you think? - would that mean that one merely obeys out of fear?

(I'm not sure how related the video is, although it is about contemplation.)

 No.12147

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I try to be impartial to most everything.

However my neutrality has earned me ire and arguments with those around me who insist I have more of an emotional response to the things they feel are important.

 No.12148

>>12146
>if a rule can be ruley
I do not believe the state prefers to exercise power over my made up words, so if we are both in favor, that's all that's required.

>But is not wishing for a certain type of rule to be minimized a political opinion

It is.  A pretty mild one in my opinion, but perhaps offensive to some political ideologies like fascism.

>would that mean that one merely obeys out of fear?

Well...no.  Or at least, I don't say "obey all who threaten you without question."  Authorities confuse me and I kinda want to be an anarchist, but I gather that's not possible.  So I say -- if we're going to have authorities, they ought to mean something at least.  I don't like pseudo-authorities: we'll give an institution the legitimate power to execute people, but we believe it does a bad job at everything generally.  I guess I reject that.

Cool video.

 No.12149

>>12147

Ah, yes. That is never fun when others want you to have a response that you don't really have at the moment.

>>12148

Hm... maybe the institution just does the best that it can, like everyone else?

One way or another, people appear to attain what is perceived by at least some others as power. But I wonder about the perception of an insitution having power - maybe therein lies the apparent problem, if there is one. What is it about a person, organization, or institution that makes a person say about it that it has authority (and then form opinions about them/it based around that perception)?

Interesting discussion.

 No.12150

>>12149
>What is it about a person, organization, or institution that makes a person say about it that it has authority (and then form opinions about them/it based around that perception)?

Authoritarianism is the necessary condition.  This is the knowledge that at least one institution should not be resisted in their use of force, and should have their orders obeyed.  With authoritarianism you can have a legitimate way to replace anarchy.

Although, much like some have said of God: I can have perfect faith in God but still, if I am not to experience God directly, question the mediation that allows me to know God.  I suppose that's part of your question.

 No.12281

I'd like to say that most opinions aren't political opinions. And most opinions are frequently things that don't involve thinking critically. It depends.

People can scream their lungs out about what band is their favorite musical group ever and what band they passionately hate to where they want to punch the nearby wall, after all.


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