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 No.9983

File: 1635922731020.png (639.67 KB, 737x525, 737:525, UAW-On-Strike.png) ImgOps Google

Is there a resurgence of union power specifically, and laborers' power in general, in the U.S. right now?

Details: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/02/1051112806/strikes-labor-great-resignation-covid

Could this mean a stronger movement for better civil rights in this country? Or may this just be a blip? I'm inclined to be skeptical in terms of the God-like abilities of corporations in the U.S., but maybe things can change, with the likes of a thirty-hour work week and paid family leave for parents no longer being mere dreams?

 No.9985

>>9983
My corporation had me do training to teach us that unions are no good.  I take it not all corporations have their employees do this kind of training.

 No.9986

In Europe, I feel that unions are a mixed bag. You pay money and you can gain benefits when it comes to unemployment and you can get lots of legal advice in case you're dealing with something you feel is shady at your workplace.
Unions do encourage employees to go on strikes and cause a headache to the employer. They negotiate higher wages and benefits for workers and can fight plans that take the benefits from employees away.
I suppose for employers and the public services they can be a nuisance.

On the flipside, sometimes it sounds like in the US, where they're less present, employees often get fucked in all directions by their employers.
People working full time hours but still not getting paid enough to afford their wellbeing, workers doing tons of overtime or working in dangerous circumstances when the compensation is minimal. People who are told to come to work while they are very sick and get fired for some non-existent transgression.

>>9985
It's plainly fucked up when people are fed that story that unions are evil.
In this case, I hope you're employer treats you really nicely.

I can't say up front if you're really a US citizen.

 No.9987

>>9986
>US citizen
I work at this corporation in the US, which I think is the information you're after.  Retail.

I assume the training is standard practice:  Unions are unnecessary because our corporation has good communication, unions can promise nothing, union tactics are predatory (we'll show you some skits about what to look out for).  Unions steal your signature and you can't get it back.  Protect your signature!

>I hope you're employer treats you really nicely.

I've had worse.  I'd say a bit better than average overall.  It's the cost of survival in this world.  

At what I consider my real job, I'm self-employed.  But although one can not share salary information, nobody says your real job -- the job where you use skills and stuff -- will pay rent.  You need a boring second job for that most of the time.

 No.9988

For whatever reason, everyone has said they no longer want to work.  By default, this means that yeah, at least at the moment laborers have more power.  Hard to say how this will play out in the long run.  I anticipate, at the least, that thing are going to be different from previous in some manner.  I don't think we'll make it back to the status quo of 2019.

 No.9989

>>9987
> I assume the training is standard practice:  Unions are unnecessary because our corporation has good communication, unions can promise nothing, union tactics are predatory (we'll show you some skits about what to look out for).  Unions steal your signature and you can't get it back.  Protect your signature!
I assume the training is standard practice:  Unions are unnecessary because our corporation has good communication, unions can promise nothing, union tactics are predatory (we'll show you some skits about what to look out for).  Unions steal your signature and you can't get it back.  Protect your signature!

Do they also tell you that unions give you cancer?
I'll still say this is very shady.

 No.9990

>>9989

What about it is shady?  It all seems pretty up front.

 No.9991

>>9990
What do they even mean with stealing your signature?
And why are unions considered predatory and useless? (can promise you nothing)
And why would you expect the word of your new employer that they're looking out for you?

the reasons unions exist is among others to have some instance that has your back and that you can go to should your employer try to mess with you.

It's like your partner promising that everything they do is legit and they have your best interest in mind. But whatever you should see, you should never inform official instances, because they're very corrupt and those will likely be the real people trying to rip you off.

It is definitely not your new employer who should inform you that unions are evil.
They should rather be like "Hey, if you want to join a union, that's cool. you do you. But we do our best to look out for our employees."

 No.9993

>>9986
Europe in general is a place in which the general populace seem to believe in democracy and human rights as a given? The same way that they think 2+2=4 they also think that, say, nobody should be kicked out of a job for being black, gay, or Jewish as well as that, say, a factory shouldn't be able to pollute a nearby waterway and kill a bunch of people with absolutely no punishment whatsoever? I guess. The U.S. is, of course, not like that in the slightest, as different as night is from day. Here, democracy and human rights are a matter of opinion, and it's considered perfectly normal for somebody on the street to want to vote in a military dictatorship to govern or to make the local administration expel all employees of a certain race/orientation/religion/etc and so on. These are just regular opinions. In the U.S., being for democracy and human rights is sort of like rooting for a particular sports team. You may win. You may lose. No guarantees.

My understanding is that you couldn't have something like a public parade of neo-Nazis in most of Europe? Or popular websites used by them? They're just banned and censored completely? Same thing for Stalinist-style communists? You're just not allowed to advocate for dictatorship in most of Europe?

It seems to be, honestly, that unions may just not be necessary in Europe because of its higher human development compared to the U.S. Analogously, many third world countries in Africa and South America need to have minerals and vitamins pumped into public water supplies to guarantee that the populace gets what they need. That would be absurd in Europe.

Unions... same deal? Needed in third world and second world nations but not in first world ones? Just thinking out loud.

 No.9994

>>9993
> It seems to be, honestly, that unions may just not be necessary in Europe because of its higher human development compared to the U.S.
As a leftishly minded European I feel like they absolutely are.
I feel like since the industrial revolution unions have become very important in securing rights for the working class.

And they still remain very relevant to protect the needs of the working class.

And this is why I have some interest in this debate. Because the US remains a huge influence on the rest of the world and that means our governments are also trying to mimic the US's outlook on things when they face economic issues.
Among others, there's been plenty of pushes to push away worker's rights and they can't do that when the unions put pressure against it. And there's plenty of, I'd say, right winged people who are picking up the story that unions are a scam and we need to cut away their influence.

But when we do that, I fear that the nice ways employees are treated here may be in danger.

I'd rather wish the US gets to see unions more as a positive thing than that the EU adopts a more negative stance towards unions (and "socialism").
It really shouldn't become a race to the bottom.

 No.9995

>>9983
>Do they also tell you that unions give you cancer?
That was not mentioned.

>>9991
>What do they even mean with stealing your signature?

The training said if you sign something, it can be very hard to un-sign it.  Granted, I suppose, it's the same as legally signing anything, but it was made to seem especially bad when unions did it.

>And why are unions considered predatory and useless? (can promise you nothing)

In the skit the union activist was bothering someone on the job.  They never explained why they can promise you nothing.

>And why would you expect the word of your new employer that they're looking out for you?

I trust that the employer doesn't care for unions and if I wish to remain employed, my job is to please my employer.  Granted if the job becomes upsetting and I no longer really want to be employed -- which is probably why people start unions anyway -- then I'd be willing to upset my employer.

I don't know, though.  About everyone [I see, in America] seems to say the same -- unions were good once, but we've moved past it.  Now corporations are respectful to workers.  [Or as respectful as workers deserve.]

 No.9996

>>9995
> Now corporations are respectful to workers.  
I do hear my fair amount of horror stories that make me wonder just how bad it is overseas.
> [Or as respectful as workers deserve.]
I mean, I might feel my workers don't deserve to take a break or a day off, or that they don't deserve a paycheck this month.

And I feel people often argue that if workers would be treated unfairly, they can just quit and work somewhere better. But even if you get shit on by your boss, it's not easy to walk out on a job if you don't have any financial stability to fall back on until you get a new job.

 No.9997

>>9996
>how bad it is overseas
I mean, we all kinda accept the world around us as normal, so it's hard to answer the question without providing a lot of detail without knowing what's relevant.  Suppose you'd want someone who's worked in both places.

>'s not easy to walk out on a job if you don't have any financial stability to fall back on until you get a new job

Most people live paycheck to paycheck, so quitting means a struggle, probably debt or stressed social connections.

The free job market involves voluntary interaction, which most are OK with, but it gets tricky when your choices are confined because you need to sleep, eat, or get necessary care.

 No.10001

An observation: Interestingly, unions in the United States appear to be one of the most popular institutions out there.

This survey from fall 2020 finds that 65% of Americans approve of labor unions while 16% of Americans are in a household with at least one member ( https://news.gallup.com/poll/318980/approval-labor-unions-remains-high.aspx ).

It would seem that political measures made to strengthen the positions of unions would have a rather large support base in the U.S., in terms of future laws.

In contrast, the approval rating of God, Creator of the Universe, in America is only 52%, quite lower by comparison ( https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/07/only-half-americans-approve-gods-job-performance/353141/ ).

I'm being a bit glib, but I find the data interesting.

Side note: I suppose if an ice cream company ever finds that its blend of flavors has a high enough public approval rating, they could maybe legitimately run ads saying "Chocolate Swirl With Peanut Butter: Literally More Popular Than God".

 No.10009

File: 1636154618365.jpg (56.64 KB, 800x441, 800:441, 26184.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>10001
Poor God...

Looks like about 10% of US workers are in a union.  As you say 16% of households.  My occupation is not unionized so perhaps I have a bias in not knowing people in unions.

So they are really quite popular, even for all the bad I hear.  OK.

 No.10011

>>10009
It's quite likely that other surveys about God and faith will find other results, but I find that particular news article interesting because it comes from a reputable publication (The Atlantic) yet the data appears kind of shocking.

In my own case, nobody in my immediate family is a union member, but multiple individuals in my extended family (such as an uncle on my father's side) have been union members.

It's very likely that what specific city, rural area, or town one lives in makes whether or not a family member is in union vary greatly... one can have a bias in knowing people / not knowing people simply due to geography.

You could probably find the same thing when it comes to something like "What percentage of households have tennis players in them?" and "What percentage of households drive either a hybrid or electric car?"... something can be very common generally but appear rare in certain places, depending.

 No.10016

We had a conversation about it in my workplace this week. If it were possible we would, but as things are our state is very hostile to the notion of organized labor, but not as much as our corporation is. As it is, there aren't strong unions for my profession nor weak ones in this region.

 No.10023

>>10016
Certain localities can be quite hostile to unions in America (I assume you're talking about that country) in a way that's disproportionately different to the nation as a whole, so certainly that changes people's behaviors.

 No.10138



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