/townhall/ - Townhall

"Gain-of-function research" appears to be not necessarily any more dangerous than any other form of genetic engineering based research. There's just a lot of sensationalism. The U.S. already has a lot of ethical rules on biomedical research as-is. Of course, dictatorships such as China, North Korea, Russia, et al don't care about ethics and do research in a fog of moral blindness, but that's not something we can do much about, frankly.

Dr. Fauci is also a hate figure among conservatives and Republicans because he contradicted their Lord and Savior Donald Trump and therefore must be stoned, exiled, burned at the stake, et cetera like other free-thinking heretics who've offended past religious cult leaders. Meh. They hate him for the same essential reason that they hate Cher and Ellen DeGeneres. At least Trump hasn't made his followers 'drink the potion' a la Jim Jones. Yet.

>>9894
>Is gain-of-function research evil?
Not per se.  What is evil is having insufficient biosecurity precautions, e.g., using BSL 2 instead of BSL 4.  But perhaps existing biosecurity facilities are all inadequate and new levels of security need to be developed to safely study gain of function in pathogens that could greatly harm humanity if they escape.

>>9895
>"Gain-of-function research" appears to be not necessarily any more dangerous than any other form of genetic engineering based research. There's just a lot of sensationalism.
Huh?  I think the term "gain of function” is being used specifically in reference to pathogens.  Making viruses be more infectious is definitely more dangerous than genetically engineering corn to make it easier for farmers to grow.

To be honest, I don't catch from the article why fauci's "evil".
Navarro went into a shouting match, because he thought fauci's request for a travel ban was ludicrous and he advised Trump to fire Fauci.

But what was Fauci accused of, actually?

Fox news here does what Fox does, I suppose?

Kind of reminds me of all the people on the right wing who have a massive hate bones for Marc van Ranst here.


Kind of curious though. Are pandemics only an issue if we deal with "labgrown" pathogens? Is this what we're taking from this discussion?
How far do we know that Covid is genetically enhanced?

In the back of my mind, I almost wonder if there could be some kind of a 'ideological prisoner swap' or something with Dr. Fauci in terms of Republicans given how much he's bizarrely hated.

Like, well, everybody else agrees to put Dr. Fauci under house arrest for the next twenty-five years, and in exchange the Republicans agree to a guarantee to like, say, stop physically harassing transgender women at night in major cities for the next twenty-five years.

Or maybe the Republicans could get to execute Dr. Fauci, but in exchange they have to give up on ever protesting another funeral of a deceased LGBT person ever again for the rest of time.

I'm being very glib, but... well...

Is there any actual evidence, like objective factual evidence, that Dr. Fauci and the Biden administration specifically lied in public about anything?

All I've been seeing is commentary from the likes of extreme right-wing propaganda outlets claiming that lies were made... them playing Orwellian games of the sort of "X wasn't stated in the past but got said later, therefore there was distortion".

Also, how exactly do these right-wingers they deal with the fact that Donald Trump is the least truthful individual in the history of the United States, essentially, and he's still being defended while others are being accused of lying?

Isn't this like having Jeffrey Dahmer insult your cooking?

>>9943
I would not go so far as to say that Dr Fauci lied, but I will say that he was not entirely truthful about NIH funding of gain-of-function research in Wuhan.  I think the most important part of the story is not about Dr Fauci's involvement, but rather about the implications for the origin of COVID-19 and the safety of future virology research.

>>9943
>Also, how exactly do these right-wingers they deal with the fact that Donald Trump is the least truthful individual in the history of the United States,
Oh boy, that probably merits its own thread. I would guess that a lot of it is political tribalism and following the soldier mindset rather than the scout mindset.

>>9944
If we define the term "lied" as "somebody said something that I personally disagreed with because they didn't disclose additional information that I wanted to talk about but they didn't want to talk about", then... well... isn't this 1984 style Orwellian redefinition of words?

Is a conservative "lying" ever single time he/she/they mentions gun rights without discussing suicides by gun or mass shootings?

Is a liberal "lying" every single time he/she/they mentions abortion without discussing people who regret their abortions?

Is a moderate "lying" every time he/she/they mentions tax reform without going into depth as to how all of the modern Western powers levy taxes distinctive from the U.S.?

One can go on.

As for "the origin of COVID-19 and the safety of future virology research", that's not relevant in the slightest, to be honest, in political terms. Trump era conservatives genuinely don't care about preventing future epidemics at all. All that they care about is making sure that the "right people" are blamed for the causation of such epidemics when they happen as well as that the "right people" suffer during them. That's what's relevant.

I suspect that just like how the coronavirus, through conservatives' eyes, was the fault of ethnic Chinese peoples and their apologists as well as elites who put pro-Chinese political correctness ahead of good American values... so too will the next crisis be the fault of, say, the Jews. Or transgender people. Or Arabs. Whatever conservative eyes see.

Of course, for those who aren't conservatives, preventing the next pandemic would be nice in terms of future reforms. We can't really do that, though. State governments are controlled by conservatives across the nation, and they've also got enough power in Congress to stifle all kinds of pro-health measures. We're at an impasse right now unless they lose more power.

>>9945
>If we define the term "lied" as "somebody said something that I personally disagreed with because they didn't disclose additional information that I wanted to talk about but they didn't want to talk about", then... well... isn't this 1984 style Orwellian redefinition of words?
Huh?  I said that Dr. Fauci didn't lie.  I think you might have misread my post.

Apparently there is a specific regulatory definition of "gain-of-function research".  One NIH-funded experiment at Wuhan unintentionally resulted in a mouse coronavirus gaining greater virulence in mice.  Even if this arguably doesn't technically count as GoF research, I think Fauci should have disclosed it instead of just saying "no" when asked if NIH funded GoF research in China.

>>9944
The sad thing is that, with discrediting Fauci, and if the allegations are true it is undeniable and should be pursued, it does put a victory in the camp of conservatives and anyone who has believed that Covid is a conspiracy, who are staunch opponents to masks / vaccines and all the lockdown measures imposed to curb Covid spread.
Not only for the US, but globally as well.

Does the US have any prominent experts left in the fight against Covid to promote counter measures.

>>9946
>>9948
The risen Jesus of Nazareth could descend from the clouds surrounded by a choir of angels before telling American conservatives to stop blaming ethnic Chinese people plus the Biden administration for the coronavirus and to get vaccinated ('free loaves and fishes for the first thousand to get poked', maybe)... and they still wouldn't do it. You know that. I know that. Everybody knows that.

At some point, you just kind of have to give up on people. I guess. That's life.