/townhall/ - Townhall

>>9400
It is good to obey laws that are just, and sometimes it is good to violate unjust laws (e.g., Martin Luther King Jr's civil disobedience).

>I guess I'm asking -- is there any other kind of answer to the question -- an answer not subject to sudden change as group opinions change?
Determining which laws are just and which are unjust is subject to controversy.  If you don't have a strong opinion on whether a given law is just or unjust, it's usually safer to default to obeying the law.

Can't say. I'm a strange breed of existentialist that doesn't believe in morality in such a sense. I don't believe in "but I was doing the right thing." In my world-view everybody is accountable for every action or inaction at all times. It's rather incompatible for wanting any actual answers to any direct questions.

I think there are stupid and dumb laws out there nowadays that can make it understandable people rebel.
But I can't think of a law that forces you to be a bad pony.

In general, I don't think you can be a good pony just because you break laws and avoid taxes.
Maybe something about refugee harboring or harboring criminals, which then depends on your view on the laws themselves.

>>9403
>But I can't think of a law that forces you to be a bad pony.
The example I wrote wasn't very good, because it is true, few advocate breaking all laws.

I'm getting bogged down in the details so I don't know if this is actually true, but there may be cases where it would be illegal to not report someone for smoking marijuana (if I suspect it's a felony, anyway).  Many would consider turning someone in for that to make me a bad person.  But some would think it was the only right thing to do.  My point is before I can be good, I have to know what good is.  Attitude toward law is one area where I don't see people agreeing.

>>9401
That's mostly how I live, although it's more selfish, in that I don't seek to fight unjust laws, just laws, if any, that keep me from doing things that I think are important.

>>9402
Who is the authority to which people are held accountable?  Do you mean the authority judges actions or choices, not a good or bad...essence in an individual?

I don't think you can walk through life without making mistakes, so I will ask you two questions that have always gotten me by, leaving me feeling at least morally alright.

Do you purposefully cause pain to other people?

Do you purposefully ignore someone who may be causing pain to another, simply because you care about this someone?

Sometimes we hurt people, or cause damage in one way or another without intentionally seeking to do so. I think it is important to recognize when we have done this, and if we can, seek to fix it. Fix it, as in, to stop causing pain again.

Sometimes we also might ignore actions of another, actions that may be causing great harm, because we care about the person who is causing harm. I do not think it is good to ignore that action-it is not good for the person who is causing it, nor is it good for the victim. If you ignore the actions caused by the person who you are close with, then not only may they go on to keep doing whatever it is that is causing harm, but they themselves will never grow as a person and have a chance to realize that perhaps they are doing something that is damaging.

I try to live my life by this, first and foremost, and then try my best to categorize everything else within it somehow. As best I can, anyway.

>>9409
>Do you purposefully cause pain to other people?
No.  Unless you mean emotional pain, as I do two things: exist with various properties (eg. religious affiliation, gender, a specific appearance and dress, sometimes occupying spaces such as cross-walks that might cause motorists delay -- I know they hate that), and set social boundaries.  Basic properties of existing seem to be enough to cause distress in others at times.  I'm also weird which probably makes it worse.

>Do you purposefully ignore someone who may be causing pain to another, simply because you care about this someone?

No, but that wouldn't seem my business anyway unless I am an authority over that person.  Authorities may give orders and punish disobedience.

>ignore actions of another, actions that may be causing great harm, because we care about the person who is causing harm

Care about harmony with that person, yes.  Hmm...this gets kinda deep.  My mind is different from most humans, which makes it inappropriate for me to try to judge whether someone is suffering sometimes.  Yes, I get physical pain, but perhaps we look favorably at a dental procedure.  Even there, it's complicated.

I guess I try to let others be as much as they don't attack me, so I don't accidentally hurt them.

Great harm -- what do you think about when you write that?

>>9410
>Great harm -- what do you think about when you write that?


I figured that one might be a bit confusing, so I will just give you an example of what I have personally witnessed and gone through.

A few years ago I became friends with a very toxic person who was very manipulative. I at first didn't understand what he was doing, but as time went on I began to see patterns in his behaviour that made me question whether he was a good person.

One specific instance/event, was that we were both at a party and we were both very intoxicated. I found my friend in another room, touching and trying to kiss another man who was clearly too drunk to be giving consent.

At the time, and perhaps because I was under the influence of alcohol, I tried to justify my friends actions by thinking that he was too drunk to realize what he was doing, so I pulled him out of that party and away from that other man.  

As time went on, and I saw my, at the time, friend, do more and more things that were bordering on abusive and sexual assault, I began to really question his morals. He was not always drunk when he would try to abusively push peoples boundaries, and even if he was, being drunk was not an excuse. There is no excuse for behaviour like that, and I later realized, after we were no longer friends, that I had done a great disservice by ignoring his actions at the time.

I ignored and tried to justify his horrid behaviour, simply because I cared about him at that time. And his horrid behaviour caused great pain to the people who he did these things too.

Does my example make sense, and explain that well enough?

>>9411
That makes sense, glad you did what you had to.  I think for me I'd draw the line at enabling, encouraging, or ordering bad behavior.  Other than that, it's not my business.