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This will be the thread for any discussions concerning today's events at the capitol.
Please keep it civil.
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Protestors break into capital.
Stock price goes up.
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...so... i guess 2021 is a sequel and not a reboot.
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...i am not even sure which people you mean...>>8466
Dow at record highs...
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Rich get richer.
Poor get distracted.
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L'État comprime et la loi triche
L'impôt saigne le malheureux
Nul devoir ne s'impose au riche
Le droit du pauvre est un mot creux
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Omelette du fromage
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2020 ended on a cliff hanger and we wrap it up right at the start of 2021 and then we'll go for a stretch of filler episodes!
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I think we're do for a good beach episode
or maybe we can benefit from that driving class.
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>>8474<3 c: >>8475>>8476
i hope we have more slice of life stuff this time, actually... i miss the less dramatic... seasons>>8477
...i love so much that your name gets to be silly goose, that is wonderful c:
...but i hope... i hope no more, no more of this. i am scared>>8479
...i was surprised, for sure :c >>8480
gosh, if that is true, i need to buy a copy of the New York Times that day to show my grandchildren
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this is me, and i am so glad my new one is happy pony, that is super cute too
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It's like the Election was Best Night Ever and now this is Return of Harmony.
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i wishes for the people/pones that lives near the zone to be safe.
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like i said in a previous thread
the first 20 days of this year will be like an extension of 2020, and probably even more chaotic
i had an eye twitch the entire day after learning about this...
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...that is a wonderful sentiment... thank you <3 >>8487
i am terrified!!>>8486
... iam scared :c
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it is straight up terrifying isn't it? but we can't lose hope in these times
i sincerely hope this is a slap in the face to the people who need to wake up, and to see how dangerous things are when you let so much slide, and let such awful people lead and speak without restraint>>8489
i sincerely believe that might just be the case. i would prefer the impeachment and indictment. but even using the 25th amendment to remove him, then leading to indictment would suffice if it means he's out sooner...
Pence was always in this for himself. He ruined his reputation and was persona nongrata in politics until Trump came along. The plan was always to lay low and reset his reputation for a 2024 run.
He was never a Trumpist. He's an opportunist. He has a chance to sit in the big chair and also wash his hands of the past 4 years while looking like the adult in the room. If he feels like eliminating a potent rival in 2024 for the Republican nomination, well, there are still executive orders on the books from the summer regarding inciting violence against federal properties. I don't expect him to use them, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did either.
Not me, this isn't just unsurprising, it is pretty much in line with what I explicitly predicted. Technically when making my prediction what I was imagining as the most likely was more of a short lived wave of lone wolf terrorism, but with the lone wolves grouping up thanks to the internet this works too.
Being predictable in a "things will continue along the current trajectory" way doesn't help me for guesses for the future. Hopefully things will calm down over time, but I suspect the conspiracy theorist undercurrent will make it fester for many years to come and the question is just to what extent.
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I have been struggling with rage over all this.
Honestly, anyone who supported trying to overturn an election like this after numerous failures to provide any evidence of fraud, an election they want to overturn that they lost fair and square ... well, let's just say I don't feel particularly bad for those who got killed. And as far as I am concerned, death is too good for this sedition.
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There are unfinished issues that haven't been fully resolved (or resolved at all) as of the start of the new year. We still have the pandemic, and there's still unrest over the election results, and the political goings on in general. Everyone's been hoping that 2021 will be better, and I'm no exception, but we still have a long way to go.
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I'm not sure what to think.
Trump stoked or caused an attempted coop. It may be decided that is not the prerogative of an American President and Trump will be removed early. It may be allowed. Coops are justice if successful, otherwise traitorous. This one was not successful.
Trump's in FB and Twitter jail. I guess that's how we discipline world leaders now.
It appears both sides rioted, although both sides will likely claim the riot was plants from the other side.>>8493
States have the prerogative to kill sedition-ers.>>8491
Pence disappointed Trump by his lack of loyalty. Your analysis may be accurate.
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>>8499>by his lack of loyalty
Loyalty to Trump
. Pence showed a lot of loyalty to the Constitution, which he swore an oath to uphold.
Anyone who thinks Baked Alaska breaching the capitol is Donald Trump's master plan to orchestrate a coup attempt should perhaps have his head examined.
Perhaps if the courts would have ruled on the merits of the complaints regarding the election, instead of kicking the can down the road by throwing out cases on procedural grounds, then those who stormed the capitol would not have been so angry as to do what they did. The vast majority of the complaints themselves were never resolved. The complainants were simply told "you are not allowed to complain." But to those who have grown accustomed to "winning" arguments by merely preventing their opposition from speaking, this I'm sure seems like a perfectly viable solution. Good luck with that.
Perhaps the "insurrectionists" should have gone the BLM route and merely destroyed the city around the capitol, looting and burning businesses in this Democrat stronghold, rather than target the hallowed building itself - and then the media would have declared it "mostly peaceful" even as the fires raged and people unrelated to the complaints were shot and killed in the streets. Attempting to burn down a church next door is fine. Even civilians losing their lives and livelihoods is fine. But god forbid a deplorable sit in Nancy Pelosi's chair; that person should hang.
1 woman died as a direct result of her actions inside the capitol. There is no indication that the others who died (with the exception of the police officer who ostensibly died), died as a result of storming the capital. If it is considered good and just that these people also died, as declared by pundits and people in this thread, people who died for mostly unrelated medical reasons mind you, while themselves engaging in "mostly peaceful" protests as is their First Amendment right (as in, those who did not take part in the storming were actually "mostly peaceful"), then do not be surprised when those who you oppose, demand your head on a pike as well.
The ball is largely in the court of the Democrats. If they choose to make examples of the jackasses who stormed the capital, then they will give the Right enough martyrs to last 2 generations, and thereby ensure the rift never heals. I'm sure there are those who would prefer this outcome as though a win by conquest, with no quarter given. Even now there are calls from Democrats to expel democratically elected congressmen and senators for daring to support their opposition. If these individuals succeed, then welcome to one party rule. Some of you I'm sure would welcome that outcome.
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
I suspect the establishment is sufficiently shitting itself at the moment. Their response will determine which road is taken from here.
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I finally got Squirrel in this roulette game. Yay!>>8503>if this gets worse
My first level sense is eroding faith in government legitimacy tends to precede war. I would like to be shown I'm wrong or current events are really fairly common in America.
It is the prerogative of states to create truths that are not historically or scientifically accurate. (Perhaps even their job if society requires unifying myths.) But, where respectful, we may ask why one lie and not another?
QAnon is a system of -- I think I can get away with saying -- lies. Not state-level, although the President has given it a nod, I think. But anyway, would it be correct to say the lies have been chosen to create a more profound divide between people in the GOP and Liberal Parties? And if so, why has this divide become more useful to folks, in the past few years?
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>>8493>... well, let's just say I don't feel particularly bad for those who got killed. And as far as I am concerned, death is too good for this sedition.
Do you also think that death is too good for mass arson?
Which is worse, causing literally billions worth of damage to the property of average everyday Americans just trying to get by, making probably thousands of people homeless through burning down buildings (the vast, vast majority of which would have been housing for the poor, specifically poor minorities), and destroying countless livelihoods (again which also would have probably been disproportionately poor and minority people), and yes, the undoubtable deaths, murder or otherwise, which would have resulted, or a bunch of redneck retards storming a single building, even if that is the capitol?
How many Americans did this make homeless, how many people saw their communities burnt to the ground, how many people saw the small business that they had poured years, possibly decades, of blood, sweat, and tears into be completely destroyed in one night because of this?
Fuck congress. The damage done was minimal, they’ll recover. Yeah what happened was scary and ONE HUNDRED PERCENT UNACCEPTABLE, but do people really deserve to die over this?
What actually happened at the end of the day? Again, a bunch of rednecks held a building for all of two hours and had their jollies. What about the people that have to live in the whole communities that were decimated by BLM, what about all those poor Black people and minorities still living in sheltered housing, hostels, or lets be 100% fucking honest, on the street because of the riots? When do you think those people will get their lives back, when will they’re communities be rebuilt? Possibly never.
Does anyone deserve “worse than death” for the billions worth of damage that was caused to predominantly POC and poverty stricken communities all across America? How scared do you think the people were who had to live through that in the middle of the riots.
I don’t think that they deserve worse than death to make myself clear, but I imagine you do, if you think that breaking and entering into a single building warrants it.
Even if you are going to assert that this was some kind of coup attempt (I think it was just idiots being reckless and taking advantage of a spontaneous happening with no particular motive) the strength of your empathy and you as a person is put to the test when it’s tried most. I know that you’re angry, but that’s no excuse for saying something like “death is too good for these people”. Even if it was a coup or insurrection you only have to look at the people involved to realise that much, if not most of them were just in it for a laugh. Again, not justifying it, but I don’t think you can call most of these people insurrectionists or evil for what they did.
How would you react if you saw the exact same comment 6 months ago from a Trump supporter talking about the rioters? You’d no doubt call them monsters. I don’t think you’re a monster, but this kind of thinking is dangerous and evil.https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fee.org/articles/george-floyd-riots-caused-record-setting-2-billion-in-damage-new-report-says-here-s-why-the-true-cost-is-even-higher/amp
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Hello, Shy Lizard. I think you do a good job writing, thank you for posting.>"When government fears the people..."
My sense is when a state fears people, state agents can be expected to apply violence until authorities are assured people are benign. I gather you would consider what I think of as a boilerplate state, a tyranny.
If people are rendered benign, then there is no longer an incentive for the government to respect the rights of its citizenry, as they become powerless to do anything when those rights are rescinded. That doesn't itself define tyranny, but is one very small and logical step removed from it. Being benign makes you powerless against a tyrant, and so a state applying violence to reach that end can be assumed to be tyrannical.
I think it's been relatively well established that there are actors specifically trying to fuel the rage of both sides. It's kind of at the point where both side are pretty happy to fuel their own rage though. Until there is some relief of tension it will stay that way. Both sides believe they are on the side of peace and love. Somewhat ironic I suppose. Perhaps that is the start of common ground.
Anyway, I don't believe the US is close to war as much more riots.
Anyway good luck with your squirrels.
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Perhaps we could make a thread where you play Locke, I Hobbes.>>8511>Both sides believe they are on the side of peace and love.
Few are like cartoon villains, relishing evil.>more riots
Rioting will relieve tension, or something else?>squirrels
Suppose it would be inappropriate of me to make all future replies in this thread to keep the name...
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>>8504>Perhaps if the courts would have ruled on the merits of the complaints regarding the election, instead of kicking the can down the road by throwing out cases on procedural grounds,
There were a decent number of rulings on the merits. E.g., >>8116
In other cases, the Trump campaign had the opportunity to challenge disputed election practices months in advance, but waited until after the election, when there was no fair remedy available. And some cases were filed in the wrong venue (e.g., filing in federal court when the proper venue is state court).
Were there irregularities and fraud in the election? Yes? Was it massive enough to change the result of the election? I dunno, but I'm guessing not. Should election procedures be improved for future elections to prevent fraud? Yes, definitely.
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Go fuck yourself and fuck off with that pathetic fucking whataboutism. Grow the fuck up and get your goddamn head out of us. v them. thinking
Just because this is /townhall/ doesn't mean I'm here to debate or advocate for anything. It's the designated thread for this and I am just here to express my extreme rage over the incident, specifically over who
incited it and why
. Get it? Not going to fucking tolerate a piece of shit like you trying to pretend like the problem was anything other than that
What I saw was the president of the united states
attempt to incite a cult-like mob of extremist, conspiracy theorist nut cases and cultist to try and overturn the results of a fair election based entirely on baseless conspiracy theories the president kept pushing.
The president deserves to be drawn and quartered, perhaps pulled apart limb from limb. The shitheads cultist who get off on his manpulative egostroking love bombing of them deserve a whole hell of a lot of pain if they ever dare claim to call themselves democracy loving Americans while being too fucking cowardly to accept the fucking facts of reality around them. As far as I am concerned, anyone who participated in this even accepting the actual election results deserves to be burned to death forcever having the fucking gall to claim they believe in democracy(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
I also saw a cop murdered. If people are going to say "who did it make homeless" well 4 folks did die so it wasnt like harmless or anything.
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Having very strong disagreements is fine, but let's not tell someone to go fuck themselves or call them shit
Technically speaking, this is literally a board designed for debate so it's unreasonable to blow up at people who respond in good faith, regardless how much you find their response infuriating. If you want to vent about the subject of the thread, just do so and walk away next time.
Gonna throw a day ban on this, you should probably take a step away from the thread anyway.
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Dangit Ponyville, Unban Don Trump!https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/08/tech/trump-twitter-ban/index.html
Yes its lost pony. Im not posting without proper voter ID you nameless adjectiving animals!
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Language moons! Pardon yer french>>8478>beach ep
That was last week. Pic related.
Maybe a new friendship mission? Restoring peace while bleaching the White House for Covid.
I maintain that the various BLM riots were justified and worth it, though I question who would burn down random neighborhood buildings and why. There's still something fishy about that happening at all.
But otherwise you're absolutely right. Wednesday's riots were still
very tame, with limited property damage and deaths and injuries limited to the protestors themselves. And that's in spite of the fact that police and law enforcement were completely ineffective at preventing the intrusion (or possibly complicit in the riots themselves). I'm reluctant to say these rioters should even be punished, much less put to death for some reason. None of these people deserve to die.
Except for that guy who just tased himself in the balls until he croaked? That guy probably deserved it.
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>>8521>I maintain that the various BLM riots were justified and worth it, though I question who would burn down random neighborhood buildings and why. There's still something fishy about that happening at all.
I'm not sure what you mean; it seems that you're contradicting yourself. I'd say that the BLM peaceful protesters
were justified, but that the rioters who looted and burned the property of innocent people were absolutely unjustified and should be prosecuted and convicted for their criminal behavior. And the people who trespassed on the Capitol should likewise be prosecuted and convicted of trespassing.
Generally speaking I would say even the less peaceful protesters were justified, but there are certain events and bits of destruction that are too suspiciously not tied to any act of protest. I don't consider everything that happened during the riots to be part of the riots.
I don't see what's contradictory about it, in any case.
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It's been a few days. Two or three thoughts, I guess:
My sense is the actions at the capital are a riot. To the extent Trump is not involved and there was violence, terrorism. I'm less sure it was a coup -- was there actually a plan to seize control of the government?
An open question is whether Trump incited the riot, and if so whether inciting a riot is the right of a US President or a punishable high crime. Many feel Trump's remaining term is too short to bother, but it's more about defining the Presidential role, I think.
A poll I looked at said about 1/3 think the election result was reached through fraud. I think that third believes the President's statements -- certainly a respectful thing to do -- nonetheless for elections to work they have to be resistant to such assertions (or I'm not sure there's any reason to have them, if future outcomes will be determined by sitting Presidents).
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The President is not subject to criminal code, I believe, at least until after being impeached. But it's probably still relevant to a degree if crimes for the common folk are also impeachable offenses for state officers.>>8527>The intent was for it to be a coup, so it seems fair it should be treated as one.
I see your thinking -- the willingness to disrupt the election is dangerous, and I don't know where people with all the law learning would come down, perhaps it is special for treason, but it seems intention without reasonable capacity to achieve that intention is not crime. Maybe it could be considered reasonable that Congress would bend to mob pressure, though. [Although as some Congresspeople withdrew planned objections, the effect was opposite.]
The fact that ultimately there was the opposite effect to the intended one is not really relevant. It's perfectly natural for tacit supporters of a coup to want to try to cut themselves off from it after it fails as a way to limit their personal losses. The mob never did reach the actual congresspeople, as was the plan. But again, a failed coup attempt is still a coup attempt.
Anyway, there are of course reasonable limits for how far "it's meant to be a coup so it should be treated as one" can be taken. If they gathered around the capitol and then started to do witchcraft, casting spells and magic rituals directed at the people inside in order to get their way, then it would have been not a coup and probably not even a crime - doesn't matter how hard they believe magic is real, and doesn't matter how violent the effects the spells are supposed to have. This is different though, because there were real world violent actions committed. Also, even if they couldn't have made Trump president in this manner, they did manage to stop the congress' ability to function (the jokes to be made about that are obvious but not actually relevant) after successfully seizing the place where it does its business. I can see how the courts can go lenient on them because their plan was so bad, but as far as I'm concerned it's a coup. Or, well, as one of them put it in this "world's smallest violin video": https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025
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Guess it could be argued, if the baseline support for Trump among capitol security and Congress were a bit better, Congress might have continued the count with the moral support -- as they say -- of the Trump mob, finding the count in Trump's favor. While the plan may not have been detailed -- mostly play it by ear, perhaps it was good enough.
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"House Democrats formally introduced their resolution to impeach Trump today [Monday]" "expects the vote to impeach President Trump will occur on Wednesday"
Can impeachment occur or the process continue after a President leaves office? (Seems likely this will happen, I doubt Trump will take Nixon's path and resign.)https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/can-trump-be-tried-senate-impeachment-charges-even-after-he-n1253544https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-news-01-11-21/index.html
I think they are saying that people who like to kick the can down the road are used to winning arguments in that way, and probably thought they could get away with it again. But the people making the complaints were tired of being silenced, so they made themselves impossible to ignore by storming the capital. This could have been prevented if someone had heard their complaints at any point instead of just kicking the can down the road.>>8504
Am I wrong?
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I don't like how militarized everything is getting. It was cathartic seeing that consequences apply to the assholes, but I don't care for the word "terrorist" being thrown around so casually to describe protesters and rioters nor to see military checkpoints in public spaces.
It's like there is a giddiness over the idea of escalation right now. I don't like it.