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 No.3597

File: 1571330585709.png (282.97 KB, 526x353, 526:353, Shy Fluttersmile.png) ImgOps Google

...what are your thoughts on race, as they relate to culture? Should race and culture be completely separate? Are they, already?

 No.3598

I think race itself can be somewhat hard to pin down as a concept, so linking too much to it is sketchy.  Especially in a place like America, where you have a lot of couples that would be considered interracial.  If your father is Indian and your mother is Middle Eastern, what is your race?

Culture, on the other hand, is slightly more easily tracked.  Still far from foolproof, but even in edge cases you can usually trace something and figure it out.  If a black couple adopts a white kid, then their race might be irrelevant compared to their culture, which can be quickly spotted.

In short, I'd say they're already separate.

 No.3599

>>3598
...i think i agree. i think any person of any race can be of a culture.

race is one thing, maybe, and culture is another?

i do think that race can influence how people treat each other though, even if this isn't, to me, the right way to behave, which can impact one's personal experiences, and thereby, their culture

 No.3600

>>3599

A lot of stuff influences how people treat each other, but I think more important than "actual" race is what other people perceive your race to be, which is sort of interesting.

 No.3601

>>3597
Race should definitely be considered separate from culture. You don't have a particular culture just because of your race.

 No.3602

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>>3600
>A lot of stuff influences how people treat each other, but I think more important than "actual" race is what other people perceive your race to be
Philosophically, one has direct knowledge of only one's own perceptions (and other types of thoughts).  One's information about actual reality is ultimately based on (possibly faulty) inferences based on one's sensory perceptions.

People can darken their skin by injecting melanotan, but there are also other physiological indicators of race, such as nose shape and hair shape (curlyness / straightness).

 No.3604

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>>3601
you are right, i 100% agree. Race should be considered separate. You don't have a particular culture because of your race.

But, in practice, as long as other people treat you differently because of your race, your culture will be influenced by your race, and none of that is in your power to control.

In other words, your culture can be influenced by how others treat you because of your race

Do you agree, too?

 No.3605

Well I can't stay around too long, so I will just say my opinion, gathered from reading the last thread and my own personal view.

I think race and culture can be seperated if that is what is desired. I do not think that past history lessons should ever be forgotten: "if we cannot learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it".

However, forever holding onto past mistakes leaves us vulnerable to carry over grudges that are no longer necessary. Rascism, should never be tolerated. Sexism should never be tolerated. But we are still far from judging people by their character and actions, vs things that we superficially do not like or scare us. And I do not know if we will ever completely get to that point because animalistic instincts and generally anxieties are very strong, compelling forces in our brains.

 No.3606

>>3604
>But, in practice, as long as other people treat you differently because of your race, your culture will be influenced by your race
I guess that depends on how broadly one defines "culture" as well as the nature and magnitude of the racial disparities in treatment.  

E.g., Ashkenazi Jews are, on account of their race, recommended to have genetic screening for Tay-Sachs before marriage and/or reproducing.  But I don't think this difference in treatment  significantly affects their culture.

 No.3607

>>3604
Influenced, yes, but not dictated.
Most aspects of anybody's personality are doubtless influenced by countless different factors. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't separate items, however.
Many cultures influence other cultures, yet those cultures are still considered separate.

And of course, experiences are not universal. At that point, it's going to be much more down to location, rather than race

 No.3608

>>3597
Race has something to do with ancestry, although in sociology most let people self-identify, in which case it has to do with a feeling of ancestry, just as an adopted person can be part of a family without genetic relation.

Culture, in this context, would be patterns of behavior and belief historically associated with groups that share ancestry.

I think they correlate, but if you wanted to participate in Czechoslovakian culture, for example, but your race was Indian, I'm not going to pass judgement.  I suppose this topic gets a bit more complicated when your bring in something like cultural appropriation, which implies for safety, for some sensitive elements, race and culture must match.

 No.3610

>>3606
>>3607
That is true... Chinese have problems with lactose overwhelmingly, so it furthers the cultural predisposition towards tofu!

Or so i am told c:

>>3607
i agree, and was trying to express just that.

Dictated, i think, is very different!

>>3608
....hm. Also very true

 No.3611

I think for most people they're different because for most areas the traditional history is one of feudalism and fractured cultures. For them culture doesn't really extend beyond living memory and is limited to clan. China is one very few countries, I think, that has a long history of an entrenched culture in power that focused so hard on cultural assimilation. The bureaucratic structures that defined the long periods of imperial peace encouraged a defined way of "doing things" across a country so large as to encompass entire ethnic groups.

Most other cultures (especially in the west) over the past hundred or two hundred years have totally rejected old cultural revrence of warlords and feudal values, either internally or imposed externally. Regardless, in both colonial and revolutionary situations, already severely fractured cultures that often lacked common roots favoring either a rejection of old values or a rejection of that rejection (without necessarily embracing old ethos but rather embracing old symbolism).


So for most of the world, the idea of the sort of common culture you enjoy is more of a stereotype than any experience.

 No.3612

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The culture of the race is either the best or worst part of that race.

 No.3613

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 No.3623

>>3608
>cultural appropriation, which implies for safety, for some sensitive elements, race and culture must match.
I strongly disagree.  I think it is unjustifiable racial discrimination to say that only people of certain races are allowed to partake of certain cultural things.

 No.3638

>>3623
Have to agree. Frankly, I find the notion rather racist in and of itself. At least as far as the whole "you can't do X if you're Y race" thing goes.
Also, it's almost always hypocritical, since it never applies to European cultural items, like say College itself.

Anyone should be able to engage with other cultures. That's part of what's nice about them. Being able to share different perspectives, beliefs, ideas, concepts, designs, and so on.

 No.3653

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>>3623
>>3638
i agree completely, though i would hesitate to call college itself is a European cultural item. China has had collegiate education since The Western Zhou dynasty in like 1000 BC

The Jingxia academy had Western style lecturers and professors that would travel from university to university in the warring states period, which was like 400 BC!

And surely, many other cultures have contributed to the modern idea of college, today

>>3638
>>3623
i was having omakase at one of the city's finest sushi bars. The two men next to me were Wall Street guys, and were these rather heavy, Western men. They spoke perfect Japanese, knew all the etiquete for omakase and were much more fluent in Japanese mannerisms than i! They even treated the sushi chef in the sort of way the Japanese do, which comes across as rude to the Taiwanese, but is customary and expected in Japan.

i think it is good that we can share. i always feel honored when i run into Western tourist or local who wishes to learn about my culture, or even participate in it!

i think cultural appropriation can exist though, especially when it is used as corporate cling-wrap to "progressivize" for marketing without actually contributing anything.

 No.3654

>>3653
> cultural appropriation can exist though, especially when it is used as corporate cling-wrap to "progressivize" for marketing without actually contributing anything.
Yeah it's annoying when globalist mega-corporations repackage local cultures in a cheap, inauthentic, sanitized manner for the lowest common denominator.

What do you think of localized variations / fusions of cultural things?  Like, IIRC, General Tso's Chicken was invented in America by Chinese immigrants seeking to create a dish that would appeal to Western tastes.

 No.3655

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>>3654
i think those things are amazing.and beautiful. ...i don't think they taste that great, but from a cultural perspective, such things are amazing to me.

You know Indian Chinese food is a thing too? There is a place here that serves lollipop chicken that is apparently how Indians make Chinese food

It's... Interesting. But also incredible to think about and it makes me happy c:

 No.3689

Race is very much tied to culture, as certain cultures are more common or even exclusive to some races. But we should not use someone's race to guess their culture because it's possible to be any race and almost any culture.

That said, I DO believe there are certain experiences and are universal to people of certain races. But that's not really a "culture", as it were.

 No.3690

>>3654
Most of what Americans think of a "Chinese" food has a similar origin. What we think of as "Chinese" food is NOT what people in China eat. But that's pretty common. Pizza, as we know it, was invented in America. What Italian people call "Pizza" is very different from what we order from Dominoes.

 No.3784

Race is a folk taxonomy of people that sees people existing in discrete groups when otherwise humanity exist as what zoologists and ecologist call a "kline", that is alleles in the genepool tend to be spread out like a cloud, concentrated in one area of the geography spreading outwards and growing thinner to the point that discerning a discrete border is basically impossible.

So yes, race is pretty intrinsic to culture because it's up to culture to determine what arbitrary heritable characteristics you have are essential to determining your race, and distinguish them from the heritable characteristics they deem to be unessential in determining their own taxonomy of race caregories.

Should they be seperate? I mean, it might certainly allow some people a whole lot more personal freedom if cultural background was conceived as a wholly separate categorical scheme ... but that would most likely lead to subcultures that could still only be understood as intrinsically linked to those same race categories. Like, okay, "nerd" is no longer associated as a subcultural category closely associated with being white or asian, but now you have these distinct subgroups of that subgroup distinguished by race, i.e. "black nerds". I think, by their very nature, any social categorical schema generates a culture around the people placed in that category, especially if that category is based on something highly and constantly visible, which is biologically inherited and thus tends to occur in more concentrated in some locations than in others.

perhaps it would just be better to implement an educational curriculum that emphasizes critical thinking skills, with a big emphasis on the idea that the organizational schema you generate as you grow up from partly from experience and that you learn from cultural osmosis,  and which you use to make sense of and organize reality on a daily basis, is going to be perpetually tentative and need of revision when, inevitably, you run into real world exceptions to how you thought the world was organized, i.e. like when you run into that black nerd


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