/townhall/ - Townhall

Forgiveness is important, and acknowledging genuine efforts to by people to be less bad is important.  But I'm not sure I believe in "unconditional" love. I've never received it, not even from my own mother. And I'm under the belief that, no matter how much you love someone, if they are toxic toward you, your morals or your sense of self-worth, then you should cut that person from your life no matter how painful that may be.

Unconditional love sounds to me like a way to get hurt, or be taken advantage of.

>>3546
No, but, love isn't something necessarily logical, or consistent, thus the framework "unconditional love".
Love is not something I think can be consistently broken down into particular traits, aspects, or conditions. Rather, it's going to be an emotional mix of many different factors that are likely to have a different effect on you than someone else.

...i am a big believer in unconditional love, but the rational side of me understands the prisoner's dilemma nature of such love, as alluded to by >>3549

...i still think it is a goal worthy of pursuit, even if it is not so possible in the abstract. Every little bit we.can get towards being more unconditionally loving, i think, is, generally, a good step.

Is it possible to unconditionally love yourself?

And a question about identity: what if you love a person, but he changes so much that he isn't "the same person" anymore?

And what does "love" entail?  Perhaps a mother can love her son but also think that he belongs in prison and helps the police put him there?

To me, unconditional love isn't exactly unconditional. It's just that the conditions for this person not to love you are outside any behaviors you'd find yourself wanting to ever do. For instance, if, for some reason, someone would love me unless i strangled a toddler, that would, in practice, end up looking exactly like unconditional love. I think there's conditions where two people would love each other, and where they would have no reason to take actions for them to not love each other. That might as well be unconditional love.

Things can have a knockon effect, too. Once initial love is established, even normal, banal things that person does can look beautiful.

And sometimes, 2 souls are just so obviously perfect together. It all comes so naturally, they're there for each other when nobody else will be, understand and accept each other in a way nobody else can. That's why song of saya is my favorite piece of media. The MCs are isolated enough that they only find solace in each other, so powerfully and naturally drawn to one another. Willing to completely accept everything about each other. There's a lot standing in their way, but it isn't each other. That's why I've always liked the couple vs. the world model of romance. It's easy to route for the main couple that way. With your typical tsundere setup, i usually just hope for them to get away from each other so they can sort themselves out and find someone they're more compatible with.

In hoping to say that true unconditional love is possible, I hope to create a situation where it would seem insane to still love someone. Someone who knowingly, willfully, and gleefully pursues something of evil intent. Could that person be loved by anyone who abhorred what they had done? I can say that it is possible to love this person such that you do not want them to be destroyed, and hope that they turn from their wicked ways, and enter your embrace. Is that conditional love? Do you care for them only under the condition that they might still turn about? or do you care for them regardless, and wish no ill to come to them regardless? I believe, that from the perspective of not wanting that person to be destroyed or harmed, it is to that end that you hope they will turn, and not incur the wrath of one who might destroy them, just as strongly as you wish them not to destroy others. It is a thin thread that holds this perspective, but it is there. I would say yes, such love exists, but is the most difficult of all to sustain, as love is the opposite of evil. Ambivalence is known to be both possible and common, so I suppose the ambivalence of loving an evil person must be possible.

I feel like unconditional love is similar to unconditional tolerance.  Sometimes people like to preach it as a maxim, but there's always conditions to it.  If your partner murders both your kids, you'd probably be hard pressed to love them, and as well you shouldn't.

The ideal is that the conditions of love should be placed fairly low, to promote long relationships.  Your love shouldn't be fleeting, but you should be willing to forgive things when the person in question is repentant of a mistake.

Personally, the concept sounds super condescending to me. I wouldn't find being 'unconditionally loved' fulfilling at all. I don't really see why it seems to always be spun as a good thing honestly.

Does it exist? Probably. In the sense I believe some people would say such a thing (even if they don't truly mean it) and that some people are probably extremely..forgiving enough that they would love almost unconditionally.

>>3549
That makes sense.

>>3550
So perhaps love is difficult to science, like a sensation.

>>3553
>Every little bit we.can get towards being more unconditionally loving, i think, is, generally, a good step.
That sounds good.  I confess, like Tender Elephant mentions, it's hard to really say what love is, but it's usually considered a good thing, and you want as much of a good thing as you can get.

>>3554
>Is it possible to unconditionally love yourself?

I'd say that goes with whether unconditional love is possible for anyone.

>And a question about identity: what if you love a person, but he changes so much that he isn't "the same person" anymore?

True.

>Perhaps a mother can love her son but also think that he belongs in prison and helps the police put him there?

Well, that's the idea of tough love.  I think that counts as love usually, it's not trying to be hurtful because of hatred anyway.

>>3798
That's pretty much how I look at it. Love's based on emotion, not logic. Trying to break it down in a rationalized manner seems to me like a waste of time. Humans don't really work that way. When it comes to emotions like love, you're not going to always make complete sense.

There's always a breaking point.  But it's a nice idea.

>>3546
Probably not.

>>3555
>That might as well be unconditional love.
True, perhaps.

>find someone they're more compatible with
That does sound nice.

>>3556
Hmm...can you love someone by not supporting their goals because their goals are self-destructive?  Probably.  It's a bit paternal, like a mother keeping a baby from going off a ledge.  Harder when you don't have that level of control.

>>3558
I see.

>>3596
Maybe it's possible to separate unconditional love and unconditional affection.

>>3800
That's a nice name, too.