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So, I was checking out this film on Crackle.com that was semi-randomly recommended to me by this other website that I'm a member of, and the movie opened with this shot, prominently displaying this quote.
I took it in. I thought about it. And I started to get rather irritated. I became more frustrated the more that I pondered it.
Let me go off for a moment:
>First, is it not really unfair to say the least if not actively obnoxious to somehow pretend that women have some sort of an obligation to behave in one certain way (or else, I guess)? All of them? Just by existing, alone, they've got to conform to these unreasonable expectations?
>Second, even putting the problematic nature of the females-belong-on-a-distant-pedestal-to-be-gawked-at-instead-of-seen-as-realistic-humans mindset (which, unfortunately, is rather popular among all genders at the moment) aside, isn't it rather stupid to begin to think like this at the outset because people are people and people are unique? So what if, say, some random woman doesn't like others and would rather live an introverted life with pets on a deserted-ish island somewhat? That would be her choice. And if she's happy, well, I'm glad to hear that she's glad.
>Third, even if we put everything to do with feminism and gender roles aside, is it not also bad to the point of actual bigotry to think this way when one looks at men and non-binary people? Why can't they be given the same treatment? Don't their dreams and hopes matter as well? Seriously?
Then, though, I kind of looked at myself and realized that I'm falling into the stereotype. The "easy triggered, over-sensitive, flies-off-the-handle at the slightest thing that isn't political correct SJW" stereotype. If I was on most places online, I'd immediately be made fun of with Pepe the Frog memes and other such images getting posted at me immediately. And... maybe they'd have a point?
To what extent do you guys try to deal with allowing minor things that happen during your day to trigger you emotionally and really bother you at a deep level? Are you able to shrug a lot off? Be cool as a cucumber? Or do you constantly find yourself in doubt? I'm wondering.
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>And... maybe they'd have a point?
no, they don't. What you described in the greentext is pretty bang-on imo honestly. that stereotype you describe was only created as a means to undermine people by the pepe-spewing wankers who just want to be able to say bad shit and then claim it's jokes. The kind of people who think they outwitted you by being able to just say "SJW" want you to question yourself for having basic morals or consideration, because they don't want that to be the norm. Or else it makes them look like pieces of shit. Which they mostly are.
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I'm pretty chill for the most part, it usually takes a bit to really get my feathers ruffled. I mean, I'll disagree with things easily enough, but it usually doesn't go past that into ruining my mood or day.
As far as that quote, I think I would have had a different reaction if it hadn't cited the source material, which seems to be a book on beauty or modeling.
If I didn't know the context from which the quote came from, I might have felt a little annoyance at it, maybe scoffed a bit, and then moved on. However, since it does show where it is coming from, it hardly bothers me at all. It's kind of expected if it is some type of guide of trying to be beautiful, and I see it more as possibly trying to empower the reader with confidence. There's probably no real ill will behind it.
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I'm usually good, until I read the comments, haha. I was just read an article on Norway expanding its anti hate speech laws to incorporate trans people as a protected class. That's cool. Just... don't read the comments y'all! Never read the comments. That was a mistake.
For something like this quote, I usually groan and move on. Maybe because nobody is there presently defending the crap.
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It doesn't take a lot to skyrocket my blood pressure.
And these are pandemic times. So many people breaking quaratine, talking about facemasks being useles and how Covid is a hoax and how people are scared sheep, how vacines are a tool to control the masses...
I feel the heat rise just thinking of it.
I was never that much into being misanthrope, but this pandemic shows how fundamentally unsave-able we are.
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i do feel your initial feelings and thoughts touched upon some real truth there. it is a bit odd and presumptuous to put all women in that category.
however, i haven't seen the movie, so for all i know it either uses it or subverts it in a way that would be artistically understandable, and maybe admirable, i dunno
as for your last paragraphs, the whole "SJW" stereotype is only there as a means of people to belittle and compartmentalize you in a way that they can ignore, so that they can continue to practice and believe in whatever they want, even if it is problematic.
now, it is good to have self-reflection and to see if what we are saying and doing is good. but other people's insults and name calling shouldn't deter you
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Seems like a very eye rolling quote from some dumb old geezer. I think the quote is dumb, but if i got upset at every dumb viewpoint in this world, i wouldn't have any time left for the things i actually like. There's too much dumb in the world to absorb it all, you know? If you can't fix it, laugh at it and move on. I try to just find the humor in that sort of dumb shit.
Does kind of trigger my more sensitive bugaboo of the deep-rooted, unsolvable problems that come with heterosexual relationships, which make me feel quite sad and hopeless, but I've gotten better at putting that to the side as time goes on.>pic related, it's my reaction when i read a quote like that.
I think being a bit upset by that quote is reasonable. Now, i don't think making a 5-page blog post about how this is proof that all men (especially those abominable straight white ones) are evil and they shouldn't have rights, well, then
you're an "easy triggered, over-sensitive, flies-off-the-handle at the slightest thing that isn't political correct SJW", and those aren't ok! But it's reasonable to be upset or annoyed with such a dumb, shitty quote.
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It depends on the thing, but generally I'm super chill and rather forgiving.
If it's an opinion I find offensive or annoying, I just shrug it off and ignore it for the most part.
If it's an event that bothers me, then my gallows humor tends to make me laugh at it or become a bit sassy toward the situation, but I still live with it.
To make me angry, someone would have to really screw up regarding something important to me, and do so knowingly. It very rarely happens (like, almost never), but when it happens, it becomes something I am incredibly careful/paranoid about for the rest of my life, even if I forgive the original perpetrator.
But yeah, I tend to just shrug everything off that I can afford to. It's not worth it to waste my emotional energy on something I have no control over or influence on.
TLDR: I'm pretty chill with just about everything.
As far as that quote specifically goes, yeah, it's pretty stupid. That's pretty much it. I don't need to give any more thought to it.
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I just wanted to point out, that people are getting all bent of shape over a quote from a book published in 1961.
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Dumb opinions like that don't bother me.
It's when people act like victims needing special treatment or self-righteous "independent thinkers" in response to criticism of their dumb opinions that really pisses me of. Usually some sort of annoying hypocrisy follows that.
But what really makes me upset about dumb opinions like that is when they get popular and effects the prejudices of the majority of people.
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Ah, you are mistaken. It's actually from a modern movie. You must have misread the OP if you think we are talking about some book.
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Thanks for all of the responses, everybody!
Here's the film, which I guess is available for free watching without having to sign up for anything, where you can see the opening in context:https://www.crackle.com/watch/always-shine
It being a psychological thriller from 2016 (which I've not, yet, watched in its entirety yet), I'm supposing that the opening had a tinge of like... intentional sarcasm or something, maybe? I don't know. Stand by what I said, though.
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Oh, wait, should've posted this already, but: strong content warning r.e. hatred and violence if you do decide to watch the flick (it opens with a woman being chased and threatened, after all, even though things are immediately complicated).
This thread is about a movie from 2016. I'm not sure why you are posting this book. Nobody is critiquing a book here, it's completely irrelevant. You might want to reread the OP maybe? Nowhere does it talk about reading a book or discussing a book. We're talking a about a movie, which maybe references an old book. But that the book is the source of the quote means nothing. Nobody in the thread is talking about or caring about a book. It's very weird - frankly irrational - that you think we have been talking about or caring about a book in this context. >>1064421
Didn't realize it was a thriller type movie. Yeah, the reason they used this quote is most likely to emphasize the mindset of the antagonist. I would guess it's deliberately supposed to be a bad take without the film makers endorsing it.
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I suppose it would be somewhat like a film about modern American city life in the midst of racial division beginning with some quote from Jefferson Davis or Robert E. Lee or something like that to set the atmosphere? I don't know, hah. You're probably right. Was still jarring, nonetheless.
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Just to give an example here that might clear up the misunderstanding.
Getting riled up over a quote from Mein Kampf is silly. Like, it's a disgusting book with a disgusting ideology, but it was a long time ago that book was made.
A historical documentary might quote it, that's not an endorsement of it though. That's fine.
But, a white supremacist could use a quote from Mein Kampf today and promote it. It's now no longer just words from a century ago under these circumstances. It's the same as if it were a quote said today.
That's last context is what I assumed from the context in the OP, that the movie is promoting the quote as if it were saying those words itself. In which case, that's something worth complaining about. It's not words from half a century ago in that context, it's words said today.
Though, like I say in my previous post, understanding the context of the movie now makes it clear to me that the filmmakers are trying to foreshadow something with the quote and that it isn't an endorsement. In other words, the movie agrees this was a bad quote and there's nobody to be riled up against. Context is everything. Under that understanding, that nobody is really backing this quote from an old book, I would agree there's no use being riled up.
But to anyone who is under the impression this quote in the movie is an endorsement, then what you are right now saying - whether you mean to or not - is "I just want to point out that people are getting bent out of shape that modern neo nazis are quoting a book from 1925.". Which looks like a very tone deaf thing to be saying. But maybe you knew all along the quote isn't being endorsed here. Like, digging into who knew what about who knew what. Long story short, you look like an asshole saying what you did. But you might not have realized how people, or at least I, initially interpreted the context. In which case you aren't an asshole and this is a misunderstanding. Only you can tell that. I'm trying to be charitable here towards you, even though you insulted me to my face with your little quip. >>1064427
Yeah, it's to set the tone and foreshadow the conflict of the movie. It's not an endorsement of the idea at all. Almost certain of that now.
Though lots of people still think that way, unfortunately.
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While I'm writing out textwalls here, let's add more nuance to the stack.
Myself - and others in this thread - are people who have been put through a tremendous amount of hurt by the kind of person who has said that quote. People who strictly enforce gender roles. I mean, I can only catalog my own damage here. But I can say that the emotional toll on my life has been enormous and devastating. So like, frankly, I feel pretty justified if I actually did want to sit down and bitch out this quote even from a purely historical context. I've had so much taken from me in this life, the *least* I should be alloted is the ability to bitch out the people who did it to me.
So, really under any context, this post >>1064288
is pretty poor and tone deaf. I ain't complaining about a quote from an old book. I'm complaining about systemic oppression that fucked my life over and gave me everlasting emotional trauma.
Context, it's important and you should be aware of it before making such statements.
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The entire OP is literally about the quote. It even says, at the bottom of the quote, where the quote came from. Also note that most of the responses in this thread, have been about the quote
. Not the movie. Not the context. But the quote
. So if you're going to be upset at the quote, which is what the entire OP is about
, then maybe it makes sense to put into context, exactly where that quote comes from, instead of just assuming this is some present day rationalization. "How can anyone think anything so backward in [2020
2016]!" News flash: it's not from 2020
John Robert Powers
Born: April 16, 1892
Died: November 1977
tilting at windmills
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I didn't completely read this whole thread, so I might be missing something, but it seems to me that you're not really responding to what was said in >>1064431
:>I ain't complaining about a quote from an old book. I'm complaining about systemic oppression that fucked my life over and gave me everlasting emotional trauma.
Yes, the OP started with discussion of the quote, but maybe the conversation has shifted a bit to a broader topic?
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Thank you, that is correct. Boat did not address my point at all really.
Although knowing that pseudo is non binary, the subtext was there from the start I would say. Just not explicitly stated. >>1064461
News flash, this shit happens to me on a daily basis in 2020! So your Don Quixote reference is extraordinarily ignorant.
Boat, level with me right now. I am telling you directly this is something I personally deal with today. Are you gonna call me a liar? If so, on what grounds?
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To put it bluntly, I'm not concerned with the extrapolations. I'm saying nothing about modern gender roles and expectations. I'm saying nothing about your experiences with discrimination. I'm saying that this quote
, comes from a time before the Sexual Revolution, comes from a time when roughly 40% of women even participated in the workforce, and it reflects that time Not only is it a relic of its time, it was written by someone who himself was a relic of a bygone era - someone who was a teenager when both the Autro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires were still a thing. Nobody
thinks like this any more. And again, I am not concerned with the extrapolations. If you want to talk about discrimination you've faced - go right ahead. But maybe try to avoid using 59-year-old quotes by a 128-year-old man as justification.
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>>1064464>Nobody thinks like this any more.
I only need one single instance to prove you wrong. Do you think not a single human on the planet thinks this way anymore? Or would you like to refine your stance?
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fair enough. This position has gone completely out of favor in the past 40 years in the West
, and is essentially irrelevant.
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It takes a lot of little things to get to me.
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I want to trying to make this more concrete. For instance, if I provide one example of a major/significant politician who has in the last four years expressed the same kind of sentiment as the OP quote, would you concede that you are wrong? That politician must be voted in by a majority, and therefore must speak from a favored position within this western country.
Would that be a fair, conclusive counterpoint?
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sure, mostly because I'm curious to see which backwater Republican
is going to be the example.
Holy shit you said the R word
REPORTED BANU TO TOWNHOLE
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Very little actually ever bothers me. At the most, I'll be upset for about a bit then get over it.
Things like the quote in the OP will make me roll my eyes for sure, but I won't be bothered by it.
I struggle with it. I would compare it to watching a 24-hour news cycle (something with which I've had some extra acquaintance the past few weeks). The same old story goes on, and on, and on; then there's a tiny development, and all the pundits are talking again, hammering home the same talking points. Like this type of news, it's an attention sink, and I have my own reel of headlines.
Unfortunately, there is no "trick" for it; one simply notices that one is doing it, and "makes the devil meditate". You can learn to be careful about some things. For example, thinking in terms of "types" of people is an inevitable habit, and typically deleterious to one's state of mind. A metaphor for this is the association of people with animals.
straight to Tartarus>>1064477
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Meaning to be more active in this thread, aaaah, but yeah just want to give thanks for these:>>1064429>>1064431>>1064463