No.2251[Last 50 Posts]
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Hello! You probably know me as Dizzy, and I was a Moderator/Co-Admin on this site for some time. Well, I'm back, but there is some clarity that needs to be clarified before we resume as normal.
I'm not just "Dizzy". I never have been. I suffer from multiple personalities, and treat each personality as though they are a dear sister. Not a single one of us is in charge, and we all carry our own beliefs, convictions, and ideals. We are siblings, but in one mind, as we tell ourselves.
This means the position of Luna will be occupied by one body, which is composed of 7 people and 7 names. We will all do our best to take responsibility for our sisters' actions and maintain transparency.
All 7 of us, separately, are known as Dizzy, Abby, Peppermint, Savvy, Braze, Chroma, and Grace. Our job, like before, is to communicate with the users and determine how they feel about the site and its atmosphere/policies. We expect to see you around the site, and hope you have a good time<3
You don't know the half of it... But I'm glad this information is out now. I've known for a few months, but was keeping the secret because of a promise to a friend.
People know of my rough history with Dizzy, now people know part of why.
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Admittedly I had a 1% suspicion of something of the sort.
I don't think it's a big deal as long as they all fulfill the role as well as one person would.
I also mean the role of friend.
I suspect a big event must've been behind the reveal so thank you for having the courage.
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welcome back Dizzy <3
You can feel free to ask any questions, I'm sorry for the confusion. I'll try to demystify it.>>2254
I assume you could make a thread on /canterlot/ where all the mods can see it? Or take it to a PM with one of the mods if it concerns private information.
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Don't encourage him.
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I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. What's the difference in the personalities? Is... this a good idea? Can another mod/admin confirm this?>>2254
I wasn't aware of that
aw, hey thauma
and hey star
i missed you both, but i feel really bad messaging thauma on Discord because i'm always in a weird mood and he's nice and talks about games with me and stuff
I'll try to talk to Raindrops before I make a public thread about it. But I'd like to voice my displeasure over this.>>2259He psychologically tortured me by not telling me the truth about his multiple personalities for our entire friendship until the secret tore it apart
There's a lot more to that, but that's the clifnotes.
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Great, Dizzy. I look forward to seeing you as an active member of the site. And I hope to god some shit doesn't happen again.
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Not sure what you'd want me to confirm. All seven of them are pretty distinct. It's easier if you think of them as seven people all sharing the same account.
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hey, as long as you can have fun at the same time as you all work, then we all good :))
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>>2265>It's easier if you think of them as seven people all sharing the same account.
I wouldn't want any account like that in any position of leadership, though.
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I mean, if 5 are great admins are 2 aren't, wouldn't that be a problem?
It does? Did I miss a really
I'm surprised to hear you wanted me back, thanks
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That's okay, I also have a terrible habit of not giving friends attention they should be getting.
I hope you'll understand if I fumble a bit about your situation. I'm curious by nature and I'll probably end up asking you things like what's an okay thing to say, how different minds work etc. but won't do it here of course. Just stop me if I go too far.
Good to hear from you again <3>>2261
It will probably be best to not delve further into what happened between you two in public.
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I'm of two minds.
When shit doesn't happen, you're good to have around. But when shit does, it's the opposite.
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Because chances are you're not the only one that got hurt.
But this is exactly why you shouldn't bring it up, at least in this thread. It wouldn't be polite to argue about it right now.
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oh that. The current mod list was made after Dizzy and her sisters left. I'm sure savvy will update it as soon as she can.>>2266
asking someone not to welcome a user implies animosity. I am asking you to be careful that you do not become hostile.
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Yes it's legit.>>2270>>2262
I will say that one of my concerns is consistency, especially since that's been something we haven't been doing that well before the return.
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Remember that people can change, Manley.>>2281
I don't think there's any implication involved; I think it's pretty easy to see that there is some explicit animosity here.
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Probably this will sound rude and insolent but I love to be honest.
How are you a stranger I don't trust you.
Don't take it personally but with strangers don't deserve my trust until I decide they are worthy.
I don't know but seven different people working in the same place sounds not very trustworthy in my professional opinion. But those 7 people can change my perspective I dunno maybe they will be great in doing the admin Luna job.
Don't worry I won't be a problem in interfering your work.
I have good behavior but most of the times I love to be insolent and sarcastic but I behave others can confirm this.
But one thing I don't tolerate is injustice given from authority but here the staff does a an amazing work so I hope you will do that too.
After this harsh and warming speech.
I give you welcome and good luck.
I hope you and the other 6 people can be worthy in to achieve my trust.
I plan to ask for fellow moderators to confirm any punitive actions/major decisions taken by us and whether they're acceptable, in addition to generally ask for advice if a particular poster is uncomfortable.>>2276
I think that is funny, now that you mention it.>>2275
I'm speaking to you because I'm a moderator, and you have questions about the moderators/site. It's my responsibility to help and assure you that you are not being discriminated against.
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I need to take a break before I get too heated.
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I have very mixed feelings about this.>>2281>>2282
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Maybe 7 people info would be a better Dizzy thread than a Luna thread.
Gotta give penalty for not returning as !!Nightmare Moon
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Dizzy is a people. In fact, "people" is pretty accurate.>>2285
That's not what I meant.
When shit happens involving YOU specifically, not you as a moderator.
One of the things we had in mind upon returning is that we should work with the staff to make sure decisions are as consistent as possible; I don't plan to do much in the way of punitive action, if any at all. My job here is to communicate and aid.>>2284
None of that particularly bothered are hurt me. It makes sense to have doubts about someone you don't know.
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Let me try to sum this up as succinctly as possible... We just came through a massive rules overhaul. Things are still being ironed out. As >>2282
said, consistency is an issue that still needs work. And then on top of that, we're just going to randomly add 7 new admins? Why!?
If there's anything I can do to lessen your concerns, let me know.>>2288
I thought about it, but wouldn't that give a very bad impression?>>2289
I have no doubts it will be alright, but I understand the concern.
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He's been hurt. Please don't push him.
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I don't know all seven of you, so the concern is septupled. >>2294
Whom are you referring to? I haven't pushed anybody and I don't appreciate the implication.
Well, to be blunt, we wanted specifically to help with the consistency and new rules, as well as hear how users feel and relay that information as best I can. I wouldn't be here without the understanding and support of the other mods.
We also have experience moderating.
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I'm not upset with you, but the reasoning from the "mod team" as a whole baffles me.
She means me. Don't push me while I'm upset.
It's taking all the willpower I have to not say what I really think right now.
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It already seems like half the users are mods, too. yet another reason why this confuses me.
If I had to guess, they just trust us? I was told we could return, and we came back and saw a few issues out in a passenger's seat -with permission. We rejoined our place on the team with the same permission.
I'm sure they all have their own reasons.
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That's not really my problem. If you can't keep your calm while I'm calmly talking to you, that's your mistake to make.
It's not you upsetting me.
But do you know what Dizzy did to me?
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Yes, Manley, we've discussed it a thousand times.
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I didn't mean to imply that you had done anything. Manley has been deeply hurt by Dizzy and her sisters in the past. He has a lot of reason not to view them as people and I was asking you not to push him to accept that they are, because he hasn't quite forgiven them. It was more of a preemptive word of caution.
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I don't doubt that. but you have to understand that an announcement out of the blue seems a bit odd to say the least.
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>>2306>new perspectives to conversations about site policies
This is all taking place behind closed doors, so I have no idea how to respond to this.
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Don't assume I don't know what's happened, I was heavily involved with the aftermath in the past.>>2307
"it" is a person, Manley, regardless of what they did to you.
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Well, part of our job is to unmake it behind closed doors, so hopefully you'll notice my attempts at that soon.
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I'm not sure if you know, but Moony and 'Dizzy' were the true co-founders of the site iirc. Which is why they're !!Luna, and Moony is !!Celestia.
As for their return, that was mostly on Moony's end as the majority (if not all) didn't know !!Luna was coming back. So it was out of the blue for us too.>>2290
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I... don't know how to feel about this.
I don't think I'm comfortable with this. This is... a lot to take in and I don't really know how to even start processing it.
I am going to step away, and take some time to think things through.
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I don't even understand what that means. For all I know, you could just start rolling back all the things Noonim, lost, and I spent over a thousand posts arguing about. I have zero
idea where you're coming from.>>2311
I was aware of the co-founding.
I take it you're on board with this?
i uh, hope you're alright?
i only remember a few conversations we had about webcomics, but you seemed nice
I can't (and won't) take any action without asking other mods for input. To clarify, by "unmake", I meant it's our job to make our decisions more transparent, not less.>>2314
Is the rule that you can't act against me as a mod without consulting another because of our history still in place?
Because If I recall correctly, you went against against that before you left.
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You know, I really enjoyed talking with you back when you were here. but something just seems off about this whole situation. I'm open to being proven wrong - not that I have a choice anyway.
i mean, you can message me on Discord, and we can talk about whatever whenever you like
we just wanted to help, so we decided we'd try to help, that's all
it seems really simple to me, but i understand it's confusing for others
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How about you tell us a little more about yourselves?
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I'm going to echo that this feels really off. Something really doesn't feel right, and the other mods reportedly not knowing about this decision makes me less and less comfortable.
maybe in a different thread, yeah?
i need to take all these questions and concerns about the moderator/site issues first, but i'd love to catch up
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This still just... doesn't feel right.
I'm one person, out of many on this site, I know.
But this doesn't feel right. It seems... I don't know. This revelation out of the blue that you're back and you're 7 admins in one... it leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.
I'm going to be honest, I really dislike this. I don't know if I want to stay here. I'll take a few days away from the site to process this.
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The dizzy you all know, from before she left, is no different then the one that stands before you now, only you didn't know back then, and neither did we, about her identities.
Now we do. And all that is changed is your knowledge.
Please friends, try to have an open mind, and please realize that none of this, not a single thing, would be possible without dizzy and co. She helped build this site with me, from day 1.
i stand firmly by her and hers decision to return, and am happy to have our friend back.
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Generally they've been a good person, although they and I don't exactly mesh well in certain ways. Not to mention I'm still kinda... confused in how I feel about all this. Having essentially '7' people with the reigns to 1 account is extremely shady. Sort of Zamoonda like shady. Which I feel this does in fact bring feelings of that person back, understandably too.
A community liaison (like how Rose is, except actually part of the staff), I don't think it's at all that shady. And if they're asking to do higher level stuff, I don't see the wrong in getting second opinions and so on before doing something. In general, that's what they did before they left (but seemingly taking less actions now, asking for more input beforehand).
So in that manner, I am on board. None of their personalities are dangerous/evil like you'd see say, in the movies.>>2326
They've been 'here' for about a week or so. It wasn't just today, for some context.
If I understood the reasoning behind it, that would at least answer a few questions. To me, as a casual user, it seemed like things were going relatively well, so I don't see why another admin is needed, regardless of who it is. And I enjoyed talking with you, and I don't want you to take this personally, but if we're getting another admin, adding one with multiple personalities
I'd love to hear from Moony on this. This is the sort of thing I would expect him to announce.
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I'm happy that you understand the current situation between us
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Enough, Manley. You and Dizzy have had your differences, but Dizzy and hers seems willing to put this behind. Are you?
I didn't really want to say it, because of how horrible that lot was, but, I do admit, I did get a sort of "Zamoonda" vibe hearing it.
This said, 'course, I'll definitely give the guy a chance. I don't really think I'll keep track of the personality lot, though, to be honest.
I can't really help being this way, you understand?
But I'm doing my best to be an asset to the site and other mods. I hope you'll be able to participate in more site decisions and understand more about its workings than before.>>2334
I look forward to getting to know you.
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Whoa, I didn't know you're an oldfag.
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Uhh... if she hasnt changed at all, I definitely do NOT want her here either.
My accepting this has been on the idea that she has grown and matured and changed, but if that's not the case, then I do not support this.
As a poster? Fine. But with power? No.
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She has surely matured. I had meant more the multiple personalities
did Zamoonda have multiple personalities? because if so, that kinda blows
we're really trying to be an open and sincere person about our condition and that certainly doesn't help
Moony. You're one of the few people that knows the details of what happeend.
I only learned about the split personalities a few months ago. Dizzy kept it from me, knowing that telling me the truth could have saved our friendship. Because I was actively trying to save it. But none of that mattered to him. It hurt me, in ways I can't even describe. I feel psychologically tortured by his actions, and his decision to value the secret of his personalities over my friendship. It's not simply us "having differences". It's what I know about these persons.
And you're wrong. They haven't put it behind them. I did not learn about their multiple personalities from them and they still have not discussed what happened and how they acted with me. This is the first time I've spoken to them in years because they refused to accept responsibility.
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Why do we need another admin?>>2331>A community liaison (like how Rose is, except actually part of the staff), I don't think it's at all that shady.
I'm fine with that. That's not what an admin is.>>2337
I know you can't help it. That doesn't really address my issues.
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Oh, ancient. Near to the start.
Used to post under a different name, though.
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I understand the habit. Just be more careful next time
No. Zamoonda was run
by multiple people, though. It's just, nobody knew that, I think, if I remember my history right, until more or less the site was pretty thoroughly screwed up.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Only the ancient types will remember.
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Old memes die hard hehe
i'm really not too worried
i'm doing my best to be a kind and sincere person, and if that doesn't work, i can say i tried my best
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Good attitude to have, at least.
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hmmmm, I don't think that's how that works.
"I tried to be kind and sincere but that didn't work, so now I'm mean and sarcastic and it's okay because I tried."
Zamoonda *sought* power, and sought to usurp the existing power. Dizzy is here as a friend, and seeks no more power than is necessary to aid in the nurturing of a loving community.>>2349>>2350
it is a derogatory slur, and we have a policy against those.
thanks, you seem pleasant generally>>2354
i mean, i'm not going to stop
I don't think my being an admin is the important thing in the equation. We're here as Moony's friend, co-founder, and generally intend to help. Our being part of the staff just makes it easier to resume helping in the best way we possibly can.
The Admin tag is probably not necessary, but I felt it was appropriate for an announcement like this.
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Yeah that was kind of a negative interpretation.
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Forgive me if I'm a bit cynical and pessimistic about things involving this particular person. (I'm the same way with Manley)
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I'm gonna go. This thread/announcement/situation is stressing me out.
I'll see you all in a few days, maybe.
Maybe, but, I dunno, terms have context to them. Such items aren't considered any sort of insult or offensive remark, 'least near as I can tell.
Guess it's like going to the more 'street' side of town, and being shocked when people use the N word in friendly terms with one another.
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We have always had another admin. Dizzy was a part of the site from the start, founded the site, and has been an admin for all nut a brief period of time. Her responsibilities are more community communication, and getting to understand the pulse of the community. >>2343
Respectfully, Manley, i have trouble with your use of the word tortured. i work with genuinely tortured people, seeking asylunm i request you not to use such language.you and Dizzy have a past, and that's private and between the two of you.
Airing out your dirty laundry in a welcome back thread is just not very becoming of you.
we made a lot of mistakes in 2016, and we intend to make less of those as a people>>2364
try not to get anxious, hon? it's normal for news like this to shock people, and i probably should've seen that coming
that being said, your support means the world, and thank you<3
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Yes, slurs have been no-goes here. (unless it's of a topical discussion)>>2344
I'll technically agree with you there that we don't really need more admins, least on the face of it. However... the only admin that's actually active is Moony. Starshine isn't really around, Hawkeye is actually not part of the team anymore iirc, Thorax and Foreground are tech admins (with Thorax being the active one), Discord is really only behind the scenes stuff.
Hell, at one point I was gonna be the outreach admin. lol
So we may have a lot of staff, but not that many that are actually active all the time. That is why sometimes we are inconsistent.
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Moony.... everyone's situation is different. Don't turn this into the tortured Olympics.
Yes, in comparison, Manley's situation is not as bad as the people you work with, but to him, that is what it feels like.
I would have thought you better than that.>>2367
Yeah, so do most people. Doesn't mean it doesn't still happen. But I'm trying not to hold events from the past against you, since they were, for the most part, special cases.
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I'll see you in the next days.
Take care and do not stress so much.
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That's okay, it's just my own rule of thumb that if I feel like I'm a victim, chances are someone else is more of a victim than I am in the same situation.
You can tell me on discord, but you've chosen this very public venue to air your frustrations. i don't think that's an okay thing for someone to do>>2367
i understand. And most users are taking the time they need to digest, i think. But i still worry. Few understand how much you have sacrificed for our humble home.
Sure, but, like I was saying in >>2363
, words end up having different uses depending significantly on culture and context.
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I generally try not to hold things against people, in my own effort to be a better person.
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I agree with Noonim but I guess it's also that we're so used to the term that it became hard to realize how the word seems to someone that isn't used to using it the way we do.
Besides, saying oldpone is just as fun.
i think things will be alright
i'll do the best i can, and if there are troubles, i'll face them head on with as much integrity as i can
i didn't exactly make our sacrifices very well known, so i can't exactly blame anyone for that
you know we took the first steps to forge this site from a bare concept into a reality with you, and the fact that you know is enough for me
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I haven't met anyone who has had a problem with the term oldfag because fag is in it.I'm
gay, and I think the term is great.
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I've been a programmer since... over 20 years ago. working on collaborative projects for much of it. People who leave projects, only to come back later, demanding their power be restored, never seems to go well. That's honestly what this looks like to me.>>2364
I mean, we already had another admin.>>2368
Half the responses in this thread are really depressing to me. >>2375>>2380
I use to post on 4chan for about 5 years from 2006 to 2011, I've never been entirely comfortable with the term.
Not that I feel personally offended by the term itself, but because of how such casual use of the term by people who aren't LGBT makes me feel about them and how it makes me distrust them.
Thread can probably just be summed up with this.
i'm here because i want to help, that's all
this is our home, and we were away for a while, but my name and power isn't what i needed back, just a chance to see if they needed us
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it may interest you to know that Moony has always pushed for a "round table" sort of staff. He is our Arthur, and we his knights of equal stature. Savvy and her sisters are our Lancelot, in a sense.
The admins simply hold administrative power over the site itself.
i'm sorry, why is that?>>2384
the sith did nothing wrong
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Eh, I think it's fine too but I'll still choose to not use it out of courtesy more than anything.>>2384
Summing things up? That'd be boooooring
I dunno, man, I seem to've met more in that stretch on the 'chans than I have anywhere else.
Side effect of a great hub of free content without restraint, people from all walks of life'll turn up.
To be fair, a part of that depends on if you think traps are gay, but, still.
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But the knights of Monty Python and the Holy Grail :P
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If we didn't already (iirc) have an idea for next April Fools Day, I'd almost say have everyone do a King Arthur motif. XD
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i promise i will be the first pony to rip into our own ass if we do something stupid
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To be honest, I never been in /canterlot/
So I've been missing so much fun in that board.
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Just for the next april fools theme please don't use the color white like you did with the nederlands theme it was really big pain for the sight and eyes.
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I'm already confused enough by the !!Van Gogh tag that keeps staring at me every time I have to make an official post. I'm not sure what I would do with a !!Galeschin
i like to memepost, but i also know when to be gentle
i think noonim and thauma are most likely the same kind of people, if a bit more edgy in their dialect
hey that last thing where people make the worst assumption, that really sucks
i dislike that, it makes me depressed and lonely
we should carpool
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How'd... you end up with Van Gogh? XD
I think that must've been for the last one.
Maybe you weren't around for the Steven Universe one.
Would if I could! My poor old car's dead now, though.
Well, she was a bit older than me, so, I guess it's no surprise.
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actually I was most definitely present during that particular endeavor of amusement
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I'll will take it in mind.
i have no car so maybe we should like, hire an lyft>>2408
also you should post there if you ever have questions about the site
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I don't watch Sonic things enough to know Shadow but I unironically kinda like his design, also it's funny to look at a cartoon hedgehog and hear a gruffy voice coming out of it.
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Well that works out just peachy. XD>Going to bed now cuzzzzz it's late as hell, take care all!
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>>2409>i like shadow the hedgehog
I like you, you have goo taste.
his character arc really speaks to me, personally>>2413
thank you anon
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I'll take him over Sonic.
I'll still prefer Knuckles though, Knuckles was my fav to play in Sonic Riders.
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I just know he was a genetically engineered hedgehog, what is his arc?
his game is about him chasing shadows of his past after he lost his memory, being pulled in different directions by dozens of people and trying to untangle all that mess to find out who he is
he ultimately decides none of it matters and to fuck it all, he'll decide who he wants to be as he goes
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I like that, I mean living in the moment is more important than being obsessed with the past.
I'm just generally not comfortable with people who would be the types to be angrily offended that someone would try to be considerate about others feelings and thus angrily reject some places as being "hug boxes".
Considering how much slurs are often associated with violence and those most sensitive too them are those who have had very negative experience associated with people who have used such words, typically in conjunction with violence, refraining from using them is just a matter of being considerate.
This is why, if someone reacts to criticism of their use of a slur, or even just a request that they not use them, with hostile defensiveness of their right to use them (or that they should have a right if it's against the rules in a certain place) in some way, it just makes them look like, ultimately they care about themselves and their own feelings before anyone else, and for me, that's why I'm not comfortable around people who would so casually use slurs, even if they don't personally
So I am not comfortable seeing them here.
it's a game about people telling you who you are, and whether you decide to listen to them
it just happens to be wrapped in really bad gameplay
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you're welcome. I know saying this won't matter much from a random anon but I trust that you'll do well as a mod.
anyway night, just wanted to say that
well, i personally won't use them, but i think the mods would need to talk about the overall policy on "meme slurs"
we could include the most people if you wanted to make a /canterlot/ thread? or we could discuss it in the ModChat
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Like 70% of Sonic games have been hit and miss huh?
i'd say 100% have been hit and miss given how many people are split on every single release
personally i think most are good, but i love the worst ones anyway because i think they're fascinating
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And I'm not generally comfortable with people who take issue with friendly banter between people, taking self-righteous fury on them for simply speaking amongst themselves in what others'd consider an impolite manner.
What happens here is a different matter, by all means, as the culture has evidently taken a stance away from such items. While it is a mild annoyance to me seeing as I don't see the same issue you do, feeling that words can be used in a multitude of manners and that it is the context of the terms that ultimately matters not the specific words, I am ultimately fine with accepting the different culture here.
My complaint here is mostly the casting of a group that I've been a part of and seem to be remarkably pleasant with a rather tragic casting by others as selfish assholes, basically.
As far as violence goes, I'd point out that there's been countless examples of harsh, extreme violence, with no slurs involved at all. I do not see how a word makes it worse. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say most bigots uttering bigotry don't use slurs. You can accomplish the same sort of implication via other words, just as you can accomplish the same sort of violence without them,
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You've always been fascinated with the more eccentric games though, so no surprise.
Is your channel doing good, speaking of? My youtube watching pretty much turned into political channels and Hearthstone/LoL binging so I haven't been keeping track.
and a community of kind, loving people who enjoy games
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I remember when I was in middle school and I called a kid Zygote after having heard the word in biology class. He didn't know what the word meant yet and he got super pissed at me lol.>>2431
Wow that's a lot! Do you earn a few cents from videos yet?
i'm still subscribed to you, i watch your videos at night when i'm getting ready to sleep, they're calming>>2433
that's complicated, but currently no money, no
i also upload videos to a longplay channel now
Hue, that's hilarious.
Some of the best insults are just a connection of a bunch of random items that have an insulting sound.
wow, really? but I haven't uploaded in months :d
no money? why? you were making bank before (relatively speaking)
yeah, please upload more, thanks
i miss seeing your thumbnails in the feed
complicated personal reasons and stuff, it's no worry
I'm more than a bit surprised to hear that
sorry to hear that; I know you were partnered (with Maker I think?) at one point
maker dropped all their channels hard as a rock after their videogame division folded
i guess disney was like "fuck better reel it back in no more experimenting with ANYTHING"
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yeah no, i used to, but that stopped for very good reasons
it's chill, i still love making videos
>>2429>While it is a mild annoyance to me seeing as I don't see the same issue you do, feeling that words can be used in a multitude of manners and that it is the context of the terms that ultimately matters not the specific words, I am ultimately fine with accepting the different culture here.
I mean, I kind of established that the context was what was the basis of my reason for being uncomfortable with the terms being used, from my five years of being on 4chan and coming to realize that a lot of people there are a lot less ironic than they tend to be. I know that context matters, it's the context that originally made me increasingly uncomfortable with the use of the terms in the first place because of how being in that context for as long as I had lead me to experience the fundamental hypocrisies that happened in that context and in that culture. It was, ultimately what I went to ponychan, initially, to get away from, what initially attracted me to it in the first place. >My complaint here is mostly the casting of a group that I've been a part of and seem to be remarkably pleasant with a rather tragic casting by others as selfish assholes, basically.
Well, sorry, that' just the experience I had that ultimately drove me away from 4chan. That what was once playfully ironic/some act of rebellion turned out to not-be-so-ironic and informed by a fundamental immaturity, self-obsession, emotional selfishness and cliquishness. My point was to respond to jade that, no, not all of us are comfortable with it, and it's not always because we are personally offended by it, but by the context of it. >As far as violence goes, I'd point out that there's been countless examples of harsh, extreme violence, with no slurs involved at all. I do not see how a word makes it worse. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say most bigots uttering bigotry don't use slurs. You can accomplish the same sort of implication via other words, just as you can accomplish the same sort of violence without them,
Okay, I don't disagree with any of that, but that doesn't really have to do with my point. My point was simply that there exist plenty of people for whom, in their own life experiences slurs communicated hostility, sometimes preceding violence against them, oftentimes because of how that it just a very common way slurs are used. Those experiences are going to leave a negative emotional association with them and those slurs, and when people use those slurs, it's going to create a negative emotional response, even if it's understood that that's not the intention
. So avoiding slurs is about trying not
to come off as hostile to someone who might be more sensitive to it, if they happen to be.
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There was no reason to respond to me with that intention, though. I'm aware that, obviously, not everyone is okay with it, I was just stating my own personal opinion on the subject, which I also assumed you were doing, rather than trying to make a point to me for some reason. EDIT: To clarify; I was not trying to say "I'm okay with it, so everyone else should be."
and if the reason you're offended by it is the context, then you shouldn't be offended by it in this case, because, as you've said, the context that you get offended from it is from when you were on 4chan and it wasn't just used playfully. The context here is obviously different, so if you're not offended by it personally- and only offended by it's use in certain contexts-, then....... there's no reason to be offended by it's use on this site, or at the very least in this thread, where the situation you have described on 4chan is not the case.
Sure, but, like, I get the opposite impression. In my experience, most people on the 'chans are a helluva lot more diverse than they let on, let alone the whole 'ironic' aspect.
I'm sorry to hear you had a negative experience, but, I've simply not seen the same in my experience of the chans. Though, for what it's worth, I mostly posted on /tg/, /k/, and /v/, so maybe it was different on /mlp/. These days I'm on 8chan anyway.
with all due respect, what was someone as nice as you doing in an abrasive hole like /v/?
you seem way kinder than a typical /v/-uh..
you know, that pun they call people from /v/ that sounds mean to say
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If it matters at all, I have come to start using the term itself without ever having regularly browsed 4chan, so the context I learned the term was entirely separate from that described environment of non-irony.
If I was to ever use a term like that, I would hope that people do not immediately attach the way I use it and the way other people use it together.
well, it can't be helped if the person went through a traumatic experience and has PTSD related to particular slurs
that's usually the folks who suffer most
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Understandable, I was just making a point about how context matters at an individual level moreso than at the "how is this term used by people" level. Can't be helped that said context might get lost when a lot of people are chatting and they can't read each other's minds. That's why after learning people aren't comfy with the term here I dropped it, but in other places I'd still be comfortable using it the way I choose to use it, with the meaning I attach to it myself.
it's a complicated situation to be in, yeah>>2454
i like the toy board
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Toy board? Im into toys>>2251
Omigosh thats a legendary name. Now i wish i'd paid closer attention in Old Ponish history class.
I have a couple questions:
1) how do we know which is posting when you are !!Luna?
2) which of you still like and watch ponies + which pony toys do you have?
ah, dizzy and abby really really love toys
not just ponies, all kinds of toys. dizzy even had a dream about action figures. we have far too many pony toys to properly display, and some custom ones
as for the first question, uh, i'm not sure.. i'll look into that, but we have a schedule so we each get equal turns with the body
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>>2356>it ["oldfag"] is a derogatory slur, and we have a policy against those.
lol wut? "Oldfag" isn't derogatory or a slur. If anything, it has a positive connotation. "Newfag" can be derogatory, but isn't always.
I never said I was offended by it's use here, I said I was uncomfortable with it. Perhaps uneasy
would be a better word for it. Partly because of what I had come to understand the attraction to meme slurs on 4chan was in the first place.
I included you in that response to noonim since his post was a response to yours about how the problem with the meme was the slur part of it. The point I made to him about the reason I was uncomfortable about it was
because of the culture and context of it, and I was also responding to you because you said that you had not met a person a problem with the term, seemingly implying no one here does (cause you've never met them), and also seemingly implying that there isn't really any reason for the rule. It was me preemptively pointing out that, yeah, I like having the rule in place. And my point being that, along with all reasons I stated already, that I generally prefer to be in a place where conversation has to have a less hostile atmosphere. >>2449>Sure, but, like, I get the opposite impression. In my experience, most people on the 'chans are a helluva lot more diverse than they let on, let alone the whole 'ironic' aspect.>I'm sorry to hear you had a negative experience, but, I've simply not seen the same in my experience of the chans. Though, for what it's worth, I mostly posted on /tg/, /k/, and /v/, so maybe it was different on /mlp/. These days I'm on 8chan anyway.
I posted briefly on /b/ for the first year I was there in 2006, then left for /v/ when the novelty wore off and everyone was beating dead punchlines to death and putting way
too much effort into being racists and homophobic for it to seem ironic anymore, then left for /mu/ when /v/ started to turn into /b/ with video games and got abrasively tribalist where nearly every conversation just seemed like it was about bitching and getting really hostile about people "liking thing I don't like", stayed on /mu/ for a few years until even that
started to turn into something akin to /v/ where all they did was bitch about women's taste in music in particular, along with constantly bitching about people making threads about "thing I don't like" which could get surprisingly hostile, and then I moved (briefly) to /co/ right around the time FiM premiered and then left 4chan all together and kind of regretting having spent anytime there and found not only the culture on ponychan relieving, but literally every place on the internet 4chan hated
I would apologize if that would be an assumption I would make, but considering the relationship between this corner of the internet and 4chan, is it unreasonable to assume that someone who uses it here might be from there?
I mean there is more to it than just that.
Casually using slurs not only communicates that one doesn't care if one might get offended, but it also communicates that one doesn't care if they are constantly reminding someone else of how shit their life has been simply by using slurs that have been so hostilely used against them, even if that person understands that such things are not meant to be hostile.
In a similar fashion, a whole other reason I am not personally comfortable with seeing meme slurs here, regardless of where someone might have picked it up from is that it just reminds me of how guilty I feel for having used so participate in that sort of culture and how I used to buy into the self-congratulatory nature of using such slurs "defiantly" at one point in my life (though long before I ever got to 4chan, not that my growing discomfort with it turned me away from 4chan). Basically, my life turned even more to shit and I grew a lot more empathetic to people who just have to "deal with it" if they wanted to fit in.
To each their own, I guess. I dunno, I was always able to enjoy things, and look past trash threads that seem to show up everywhere anyway.
I'll throw in that /mu/ was kind of an elitist bunch from the start, to be honest with you. But, that's mostly from passing interactions, so, y'know.
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>Casually using slurs not only communicates that one doesn't care if one might get offended, but it also communicates that one doesn't care if they are constantly reminding someone else of how shit their life has been simply by using slurs that have been so hostilely used against them, even if that person understands that such things are not meant to be hostile.
This I don't think I can agree with, though. While I can't really tell you your experiences are wrong, and so all I can do is say that your interactions on the 'chans doesn't really fit my own, this being stated as though it's a fact is a bit much.
While it certainly requires to some degree a lack of caring what others outside the social sphere think, it does not necessarily equate to not caring if someone is offended. That is, of course, because there's a difference between someone having moral outrage over people using a naughty word, ala Christians not that long ago, and people who are actually, genuinely, hurt by the terms used. I'd say the vast majority of the time, it's the sort of moral policing you saw in the same way as old Christians back in the day, rather than actual hurt by those within the groups of the slurs. I think most the time the guys using these terms are doing so because it's, and I believe you had said this earlier as well, a rebellion against the status quo morality as is fairly standard regardless of when you look. It's nothing to do with not caring about the pain others feel, it's more to do with not caring about the moral outrage of busybodies and pointed authority figures.
As to the notion of "not caring if they remind someone how shit their life is", I don't even agree that it does that to begin with, so certainly I could never find myself able to agree with the notion that they are uncaring for such a side effect. Besides, and this is a part of what I was getting at earlier as far as violence goes, lots of people have lots of things that remind them of shit aspects of their life. It doesn't have to be a slur.
Do people who speak about how much money they're making, or all the neat things they've bought not care if they constantly remind me of how shit my life is, because I happen to be rather poor when it comes right down to it?
I'd not say so, myself.
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Yummy toys i love toys! I have boxes and bags and piles of them including a Megablox castle and a Duplo pirate ship...looking forward to posing some pony sea battle pics with the movie pirate ship too.
So you have separate property then? Do you share memories, like if one sees the pony movie then have the others seen it too or do each have to see separately? Im not that good with names but i'll try to keep yourses all straight as best i can.
Heres a snap of whats on my bed right now. Some of my faves are wooden pull toys and those clicky-joint Fisher Price animals. Something about the clicky joints are very calming...its surprising how many different animals they have. This one's a cow and has a bell in it!
I shop thrift for toys a couple times a week. It's my idea of fun time.
What sort of schedule? How's it work (since you don't seem to mind sharing)?
>>2461>It's nothing to do with not caring about the pain others feel, it's more to do with not caring about the moral outrage of busybodies and pointed authority figures.
But it does though, if one is more focus on being defiant of "moral outrage" or "busybodies" one is not focused on the people who would be actually hurt. In fact, this very attitude is the reason I see it as fundamentally self-centered. If one's attitude is such that they would first assume that anyone who is expressing offense is just being sanctimonious or a "busybody", that suggest that one is first concerned with whether or not someone might have suggested they might be a bad person, before
they are concerned with the possibility that someone might sincerely be hurt. I ran into that attitude often as an adolescent, and at one time I probably held that attitude which is precisely what attracted me to being "anti-PC" at one point. Framing it as some sort of rebellion, projecting "you can't tell me what to do, mom" onto the rest of the world, and bristle under the idea that anyone
would tell me what I could or couldn't say, and just never consider the why
behind why such things would be considered bad to do, or convince myself that there is no real
reason at all, so there was nothing actually wrong to doing it, no one's feelings could really
be hurt. >As to the notion of "not caring if they remind someone how shit their life is", I don't even agree that it does that to begin with, so certainly I could never find myself able to agree with the notion that they are uncaring for such a side effect.
Well, I think it's something you should consider, because I can tell you from personal experience, that yes, it certainly does. I mean, you already acknowledge that people can make you feel depressed simply by mentioning something like how much money they have, so is it not possible that using a slur casually can remind people of how it's been used in hostility directed toward them? Sometimes as a precursor to violence?
speaking of which ... >Do people who speak about how much money they're making, or all the neat things they've bought not care if they constantly remind me of how shit my life is, because I happen to be rather poor when it comes right down to it?>I'd not say so, myself.
This overlooks a key qualitative difference. A word becomes a slur and comes to be regarded as a slur because of how often it's used in an explicitly hostile and/or pejorative manner.
Someone talking about something that makes you jealous is not casually saying things that are generally understood to be hostile in meaning or connotation.
But slurs are, and to use them casually when they are generally understood to be used in a hostile manner, because they are slurs, places some sort of responsibility on the person who uses them if they use them without considering how they effect those who might have been on the receiving end of slurs in the past would be emotionally effected by them and that ability to bring memory of that pain to their attention.
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I dunno, man, like I said, I get the opposite impression. Like, it seems incredibly selfish to me to demand others change because of your own issues. I didn't say they'd assume people're sanctimonious or a busibody, I'm just suggesting that's most
of the offense, near as I've seen. > I mean, you already acknowledge that people can make you feel depressed simply by mentioning something like how much money they have
...The point of me using it was to show how absurd the idea is.
If I get depressed because you said something, that's on me, not you.
That isn't something you should be expected to know or understand. It's a personal issue on me
and me alone. I can, by all means, ask you not talk about that sort of thing, and, if you know me, then by all means, it might be reasonable to restrict yourself in that way.
But we aren't talking about people we know.
We're talking about people you don't
know seeing it and getting depressed.
This thread could remind someone of their shitty life, right now. The post you just made could do that. Does that mean you don't care if you remind people of their shitty lives? >A word becomes a slur and comes to be regarded as a slur because of how often it's used in an explicitly hostile and/or pejorative manner.
The word itself is not really the problem. It's not worth caring about. It's just a word.
What matters is how
the word is used.
Trust me, I know damn well that sometimes, you don't even actually have to say
anything directly hostile to communicate how much you hate someone, or to seriously put them down.
Besides that, though, I'm not even sure what it matters if it was
hostile, unless it's directed at them. In the context of literally just saying "oldfag", I don't see how anyone could see it as a hostile item, even if it was addressed to them, and, I don't think that's even what we're talking about here. Near as I can tell, the context is people coming across it, not actually receiving the terms.
Well, I disagree with most of this and the first paragraph seems like assuming the intention of other people more than anything.
I guess it comes down to how much responsibility a person A has for using a word without intending any negative meaning but person B feeling hurt from it. My stance would mostly be that it's person B's responsibility to keep their emotions in check, and person A could modify their speech out of courtesy.
Your stance seems to be that person A is responsible for the word they used because person B felt hurt from it, having heard person C, D and E use it negatively before. I don't agree with that.
This is more or less how I feel. Ultimately, any self-censorship or consideration is a matter of politeness
, nothing else. Offense is taken
, after all.
Now, there's by all means a line of what can be considered reasonably offensive, but, it isn't single words, I'd say. It's full statements, and it's more to do with what those statements say, than what one can take out of them separate from the intention of whoever had said it.
I'd say it's a large part of why hate speech laws've got so out of hand, to the point where commedians're arrested and charged for jokes.
I just woke up a while ago and read the most of this thread and I admit I feel indeed a bit confused even a little bit shocked by the things I read.
>>2465> Like, it seems incredibly selfish to me to demand others change because of your own issues.
There is no one demanding anything here. It's a matter of courtesy and consideration, as I stated from the beginning. Honestly, this is just twisting things and making mountains out of molehills. >...The point of me using it was to show how absurd the idea is.
Yeah, I know, you didn't. And I pointed out what you weren't considering. >If I get depressed because you said something, that's on me, not you.
That isn't something you should be expected to know or understand. It's a personal issue on me and me alone.
True, but some issues are common enough as to be expected that some people might have them. I.e. like having a common slur used against them in a hostile context. It's not hard to understand that someone who might often be on the receiving end of certain very common slurs and even maybe violence associated with that could be dealing with all the pains that come with that. That's just a combination of empathy and an understanding of how things happen in the world.>But we aren't talking about people we know.>We're talking about people you don't know seeing it and getting depressed.
So given that then, what is the safer bet? That people you don't know won't
feel like shit after being reminded of all the ways a common slur has been used against them, or that they will
? If you bet the later, and go ahead and use hostile slurs casually, knowing that it's possible given that it's a slur
then you're going to come off as inconsiderate if you've made someone else uncomfortable, if you bet the later and refrain from using slurs around someone despite not needing to, then you've lost nothing.
The fact that you don't know them is why
it's considerate not to use common slurs. >The word itself is not really the problem. It's not worth caring about. It's just a word.>What matters is how the word is used.which is what makes it a common pejorative
I mean, this is such a canned response noonim, seriously! I mean are you even following what I am saying, or just knee-jerking? It's like you think this just negates everything about how the rest of the world actually works or how things actually happen. Or like, how words are actually
used. I was pointing out what comes after
the point you made here, i.e. what happens when you extrapolate from this. Of course
you can make any word into a pejorative, that's understood. That's how all
slurs become slurs in the first place. In fact that's how all words in general
gain meaning, literal, symbolic, and figurative, and it's how they gain connotations, in how they are commonly
used. The word "fag" literally means a stick to be burned, hence it's use as shorthand for cigarette in the UK, but it's been used as
a slur often enough as against gay people in the united states that it's basically commonly understood to be
a slur in the united states because of how it's been commonly used
. And I'm pretty sure you should understand this.
And given that it is used that way, that means you can bet that it's been
used that way, many
times, and in the way most slurs have been used, as an expression of hostility and even as a precursor to violence.
And even if it is someone else's responsibility to handle their own feelings, it doesn't mean it isn't a struggle that one can express a consideration for by avoiding doing or saying things that almost certainly going to leave the atmosphere of a place depressing and painful and undermine their ability to enjoy the atmosphere. >Besides that, though, I'm not even sure what it matters if it was hostile, unless it's directed at them. In the context of literally just saying "oldfag", I don't see how anyone could see it as a hostile item, even if it was addressed to them, and, I don't think that's even what we're talking about here.
Then why even bring this up? That literally was never what I was talking about here! I'm not talking about words being directed at them!
I was literally talking about the atmosphere
you can create when you use words that have been
used as hostile slurs so casually so many times before and you know
you can avoid creating that atmosphere by simply avoiding using slurs so casually. >>2466>I guess it comes down to how much responsibility a person A has for using a word without intending any negative meaning but person B feeling hurt from it. My stance would mostly be that it's person B's responsibility to keep their emotions in check, and person A could modify their speech out of courtesy.
Courtesy is the entirety
of what I've been talking about this entire
time !!!! >Your stance seems to be that person A is responsible for the word they used because person B felt hurt from it, having heard person C, D and E use it negatively before. I don't agree with that.
My stance is that person A communicates
that they don't really care if person B is hurt by their casual use of common slurs that many people have used.
My point in that paragraph is that if it's "more to do with not caring about the moral outrage of busybodies and pointed authority figures" as noonim stated, then logically, it's certainly not caring about being courteous to or caring about person B. >This is more or less how I feel. Ultimately, any self-censorship or consideration is a matter of politeness, nothing else.
This literally made me facepalm. I've been talking about courtesy and consideration this entire time
You keep trying to pull this back to some canned response, as if my point was entirely something other than what it actually was.
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So I read through much of that new thread on /canterlot/, and now I have a much better idea of what your role is supposed to be. Unfortunately this thread gave me the complete opposite impression of what you were intending to do as an admin, never mind that I didn't realize you were already back and posting under your other names. this thread: "Hi, I've come back out of the blue! btw I'm 7 people! btw I'm second (or possibly even first?) in command!" If your major role is dispute mediation, then I'm all for it. I still don't know why 'admin' is a necessary part of that, but none of the other mods seem to have a problem with it, so... it's y'all's site - however you want to run it. I would honestly prefer if you were Dizzy-the-dispute-mediator-who-isn't-an-admin, but I can appreciate what I've seen you do so far, so I'm just going to shut up about it. Welcome back!
Oh, well I agree in terms of courtesy.
However honestly, going by our example word, and me being person A, I would keep using the term oldfag in general conversation because in MY lingo, it has no negative connotation. It also had no negative connotation in the lingo of people I spoke with. Thus, I would not even feel bad using it, because I don't see it as a negative thing to use it. It's not a matter of "not caring", because when you put it like that it seems like deliberate negative action. I however see it as me doing something neutral and my word being misunderstood, making ME the victim of miscommunication. Meanings being put into my words where that meaning doesn't exist and never existed in the way I use said language. Why would anyone allowed to implicate the way I speak like that, assuming malice onto my words like I don't care how people feel?
There's a lot of folk that do demand it, though. While I understand it being a matter of "courtesy and consideration", to not say such things to those who might take offense, you're the one who said a bunch of negative items about a large group because they happen to say things you don't like, put bluntly.
As to the 'molehills' item, that's exactly how I feel making a fuss about terms like "newfag".>True, but some issues are common enough as to be expected that some people might have them. I.e. like having a common slur used against them in a hostile context.
Okay, but, that isn't what we're talking about here.
The term "oldfag" is not hostile in the slightest.>So given that then, what is the safer bet?
Never say anything because whatever you say will inevitably hurt someone, somewhere? I mean, if you're supposedly responsible for the hurt some people have about these things, you're going to run in it absolutely everywhere. Doesn't matter what you say, someone's going to get hurt. So, does it matter if people are hurt, or is this a 'greater good' type of thing?>And I'm pretty sure you should understand this.
Sure I understand this. That's how you get definitions.
But, you need to understand that words have many meanings
Words can be used in countless different ways.
If you're making a fuss about the word
, rather than how it is used, you're looking at the wrong thing, you ask me.
Because I can say all sorts of terrible shit without saying any slur. It's easy. Likewise, I can use the slur in a neutral or even friendly manner. Hell, look at the black community as a whole and the N word. Turned that word into a friendly remark.
I'm saying basically just because it's used
as an expression of hostility does not mean it is always used
as an expression of hostility. >Then why even bring this up? That literally was never what I was talking about here! I'm not talking about words being directed at them!
Because it came about as a result of >>2338
Because you responded with >>2383
in direct response to me and Val talking about the term "oldfag"?
Like, we don't have conversations without context, man.
If you meant it in a totally different way, by all means. I have always been talking with consideration to this point, not simply walking up to some gay person and calling them a 'fag'.>I was literally talking about the atmosphere you know you can create when you use words that have been used as hostile slurs so casually so many times before and you know you can avoid creating that atmosphere by simply avoiding using slurs so casually.
Well, I don't give a damn about the "atmosphere", because that's completely 100% subjective.
I can say that you give off a judgemental atmosphere, but that doesn't make it in any way an objective item of consideration. I can't make judgements off of something so loose and useless. I can only say people should be allowed to talk as they want
. I do not believe that terms like "newfag" or "oldfag" create a hostile atmosphere. I don't think I could ever buy that, considering I've been in places where the terms are common, and it didn't seem hostile at all. That's what I'm getting at.
This conversation's getting rather useless, as I feel we're starting to discuss completely different items.
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Must involve the same kind of 'software' that allows authors to create stories with separate people. I don't have a lot of that software. I will address you as whatever name appears in the name part of the website provided it is technically possible to display the name.
I think the purpose of this thread is for me to acknowledge your authority over me. Yes, that is the way of it, I know about authorities and rules. I try to be a good pony.
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Not actually all that uncommon on a site this size. Really makes it easy to keep things maintained when you've got a sizeable group of veterans you can trust to keep the site going as its always been.>>2313>I take it you're on board with this?
I wasn't really informed about it ahead of time, but I don't have any significant complaints about it. Seems like a lot of people are really upset, though, didn't expect that.>>2395>So I've been missing so much fun in that board.
To jump in on this late derailing discussion, I've never really liked how the slur rule applies indiscriminately. It's pretty common for slurs to be used by the people they describe in reference to each other, so I think intent is more important than a specific series of letters. And we already have rules against that intent.
But y'all voted for the rules, so this is what we've got.
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Huh. Maybe we did. Guess it's legal now.
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God I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but:
I would like to hear the mods-every mods- thoughts on this whole matter.
I want to hear what you think of this, how you feel about it, if you feel like this is a good decision, bad decision, if you are on the fence, etc.
No offence Dizzy, but I think this is one of those crucial moments where we need complete clarity on this, and it needs to come from the people behind the scenes and in front.
Please take your time in answering.
>>2483<tfw Ella doesn't want to know how the devs think :(((((((((
Lol, anyway dizzy and her sisters just showed up one day out of the blue (from my perspective, I imagine they were talking to Moony and maybe raindrops prior). The first thing they said was they didn't want to interrupt what we were doing and didn't want to change the status quo. After a week or so, as reports came in they started to give out their ideas and opinions, and I thought they have been very smart and level headed about everything they have suggested! I even told them in private I thought they were really helpful and were bringing something valuable to the team. I think they realized maybe they could do more for the community by stepping up and filling their old role. I'm 100% on board with this personally.
Also, everyone don't trip up over the Admin thing. Like we don't really follow a chain of command here. It's basically symbolic. I'm just dev, but I have just as much say and influence over policy and moderation as Moony does. Honestly, I sometime feel I have too much say, because I'm loud and complain a lot and that end up turning into me getting my say more often than not! So don't think that suddenly there is a new decision maker in town that you barely know and who can shake things up for you in whatever way they want. They have a voice in things now, but they are really no more influential or powerful than anyone else on the staff. The power really lies in the hands of whoever has the best idea for serving the community, not in who has what title. If dizzy or her sisters present bad ideas for our community, I or any of the others will be there to be a check on that.
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I always got the vibe you were second in command, probably because of that. Kind of funny
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I have no significant thoughts on this.
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This is proooooooobably the best put response honestly.
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Be honest, Thorax.
You've been the King of Ponyville for some time now and the rest of the staff have been hanging upside down in green pods.
!!Luna is just your reformed changeling hive with a collective name and very soon you're planning to rename /pony/ to /feelingsforum/.
Ok ok but a lost pony can fantasize can't i? (btw no offense other staff...)>>2251
Oh right, i was hoping if it's not too intrusive, if you can share some kind of schedule for each personality with us (since you mentioned there is one) so we can have an opportunity to meet each of you? I wanna yammer with Dizzy and Abby about toys. Not enough toy lovers here, i'm eager to get some toy talk on!
Also i hope all this groaning will diminish around here. Moons says you're great and that's good enough for me by itself, plus imo you've really made yourself vulnerable to us itt about your personal struggles and i personally really respect that. I am certain you are a wonderful addition to our rather curmudgeonly little group here and i know it's really gonna work out!
Not a mod, but I've spoken with every one of the 'sisters'. They all seem well intentioned.
This is very unknown territory, so I can't say I know what will happen, but so far I have seen no cause for concern.
As for this thread, I really think Thorax has already given the best response, here: >>2484
I am not trying to sound rude or anything.
My only concern is about the Dissociative identity disorder's symptoms and whether Grace is suffering from them or not... specially the Dissociative Amnesia
... However, I am not against their return as moderators, they have always been good to me and only want to help this community.>>2491
Don't be rude.
By no means is any one of us "in-command", I only intend to help bridge the gap between the mod staff and users. I have no power or authority over the other staff.
I would argue the devs hold the most power by default, since they understand how the site works, and can deign to destroy us all within moments. They should be feared.
I'm just messing around Ella, I know what you meant no need for sorries!>>2501
I kinda wrote the second half of my post >>2484
to address the concern in your post regarding them being Admin. I just didn't link you, for whatever reason. Admin is really no more significant a role than my own in this power structure. When you're all like "thorax is just a dev" in canterlot and ignoring what I said, I kinda chuckled to myself because you have no idea how deep in policy and decision making I am here. >>2502
Yes! Devs should be feared! I seriously have near complete control to do whatever I want to the site, everything here hinges on my trustworthiness! I tell Moony not to trust me all the time, lol.
just pointing out that the OP didn't exactly make that clear.
that's understandable. Not a good system though for reasons that should be obvious.
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oh, welcome back! it is nice to see you.
since others have been asking questions i hope its not too intrusive if i ask something ive been curious about for a while?
i didnt know about the multiple personalities until this thread, but had considered it a possibility based on seeing that your avatar and name change on discord often. perhaps this is a silly question to ask, but does each individual change that each time they are around, or does one change it ahead of time as courtesy when they know the next is about to come around?
just a silly curiousity, i apologize if that is offensive or too intrusive.
again though, nice to see you c:
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Moony is like that; very scatterbrained. So try not to take it personally.
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might be for the best. I don't want to be a mod.
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No worries Ella, feel better soon!>>2509
Lol, I dunno what he said but you really have no obligation outside developing if you don't want. I take on a lot of policy shit because I want to shape the community to be the best it can be. If you just want to see the site features improved, I see no reason that can't be arranged and you'll just work on whatever we agree you can work on.
I don't even have a mod tag and only use mod powers in raid conditions or to just lock shit til someone else can handle the situation. You shouldn't even have to do that much if you don't want to. Like whatever you were thinking you would do I think is fine and can be arranged.
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ah, that makes sense then ^^
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Well that wasn't the impression that I got, but ok.
Is there a cloned test server or anything or the sort?
I don't know what Moony said, he may have assumed that you'd want to have some input into policy as staff. Or, maybe he just thinks that everyone on staff should be part of a team which offers opinions. Doesn't matter, if all you want is to do development, if you don't even want to have a Developer capcode or mod privilege on the site, I'm confident that can be arranged (hell, that's even better, when it comes to privileged access to a system I prefer not having to trust as many people as possible).
What I have right now is a VM on google cloud which is pulling from the master repo. I don't mind if you work off the same VM, or we can setup some kind of cascading thing if you want to pull and push from my VM's repo. I imagine that is a thing git can do, I'm not too familiar with running the server side of git though.
I dunno, you want to talk it over, you can find me on discord maybe Maxwell#2289
"not caring" doesn't imply malice. It literally implies simply not thinking about others feelings. But if the response is something like "well I don't have
to care about other's feelings!" or some sort of denial that anyone might be negatively effected instead of something like "oops, my bad, sorry about that", well then, I'm going to see that person as self-centered and selfish. Cause that is what they kind of response communicates
And as I've stated before, even if
someone understands that the term you use doesn't imply malicious intent or that it's not being used in a hostile way, if it includes a slur that is commonly used in a hostile manner, and that person may have been on the receiving end of it, it wouldn't matter if they understand that it's not being used in a hostile way against them, it would still be shitty for them to have a constant reminder of all the times that it was
used against them and have to just put up with that just to try and fit into a community.
I have not had the word fag used against me in such as part of abuse or anything, but there are others hostile slur words as such that have been used against me, and it does generally make me uncomfortable around people who in other context use such words so casually. It's not that I am assuming malice on their part, it's not like intent isn't obvious to me from context, but it doesn't change the fact that it is
emotionally draining to try and pretend like every use of those words is not a reminder of everytime it's been used against me in an abusive manner, just to fit in to any group I am trying to be a part of where it's expected that people, who would not be the common target of those slurs, would use those slurs so casually. So it's not hard to me to empathize with others who might be in a similar situation with the word "fag" and to see exactly why
it's a courtesy to not use such slurs so casually. >>2474> you're the one who said a bunch of negative items about a large group because they happen to say things you don't like, put bluntly.
I said a bunch of negative things about a group of people who's response to the very idea of being courteous is to say, as I stated it to Thauma, "I can say whatever I want!!
" or to knee-jerk argue whether or not anyone is actually negatively effected by it communicates that one cares more about whether or not someone suggested they might be a bad person, even if only mildly, before
any consideration of anyone else who might be negatively effected by it. That knee-jerk response of "I did nothing wrong!" before
saying "oops, sorry, I hadn't considered that" is
self-centered. >As to the 'molehills' item, that's exactly how I feel making a fuss about terms like "newfag".
Well, I mean, you're the own twisting and reframing having consideration for others and maybe coming off as an ass for not showing that consideration as if someone were "demanding" you to change. That's making a mountain out of a molehill. >Okay, but, that isn't what we're talking about here.>The term "oldfag" is not hostile in the slightest.
But the word "fag" is
. >Never say anything because whatever you say will inevitably hurt someone, somewhere? I mean, if you're supposedly responsible for the hurt some people have about these things, you're going to run in it absolutely everywhere. Doesn't matter what you say, someone's going to get hurt. So, does it matter if people are hurt, or is this a 'greater good' type of thing?
You left out the part, and never addressed where I pointed out the qualitative differences between saying something that might make someone upset but is not generally expected to and saying something that is generally understood to hurt someone. If one says something like the later without any bad intentions and ends up making someone feel terrible anyway, they wouldn't be held responsible because nothing they said would be expected to do that, but if someone says something like the former, and casually says something that is generally understood to have been
used to hurt others, knowing
that it's used that way, then that does kind of place a responsibility on their shoulders, as they could reasonably be expected to understand that certain words are commonly used to hurt others. >But, you need to understand that words have many meanings.>Words can be used in countless different ways.>If you're making a fuss about the word, rather than how it is used, you're looking at the wrong thing, you ask me.>Because I can say all sorts of terrible shit without saying any slur. It's easy. Likewise, I can use the slur in a neutral or even friendly manner. Hell, look at the black community as a whole and the N word. Turned that word into a friendly remark.
You see, you keep trying to twist what I am saying back around to something you can respond to with this canned response. You seem to be treating this as if I am arguing against this when I am not.
I don't actually disagree with this argument, I never actually said I did, I don't know why you seem to believe this is a counter to whatever I am saying. I have explicitly
stated, as I just did to Thauma here, and in posts before this, that even if
it's understood that someone is not using a usually hostile word in a hostile way, it doesn't mean that someone isn't
going to feel a negative association with it just because they know it's not being used in a hostile manner, it's not always about whether or not they feel like they are being personally attacked. So yeah, you can make any word into a slur, you can make any word into a derogatory term and you can use words that have, and are, still used in hostile, derogatory and pejorative manner in a non-hostile way. But you can't change anyone's past experiences with those hostile words by doing that
, you can't change how it makes them feel simply to be around them simply by using them in a non-hostile manner, especially if they have been on the receiving end of that hostility and abuse. Even if they understand you mean no harm
, it can still make them feel like shit to just be around them.
And if one understands that such words are commonly
used abusively, then one can be held accountable for using words that they can reasonably expect someone might not be comfortable being around because of their experience of abuse with it.>I'm saying basically just because it's used as an expression of hostility does not mean it is always used as an expression of hostility.
Again, it doesn't matter how it's being used in any one moment to someone who has been abused with it. Even if they understand it's not being used as an expression of hostility in context
.>Like, we don't have conversations without context, man.
You say that as if there wasn't
a context. I don't get the impression that you understood what the context was. I was a response to Val's implication that maybe no one here has a problem with the term, when I do, along with an explanation of why I have a problem with the term. And this turned into a response to you seemingly arguing against points I am not making and and things I am not saying and ignoring things I have said.
So it's just utterly confounding to see you respond to something I said like "I don't even think that's what we're talking about" as if that wasn't clear from the context to begin with. >Well, I don't give a damn about the "atmosphere", because that's completely 100% subjective.
I can say that you give off a judgemental atmosphere, but that doesn't make it in any way an objective item of consideration. I can't make judgements off of something so loose and useless. I can only say people should be allowed to talk as they want.
And there we go, the precise
attitude that was the reason that I grew sick of being around 4chan for so long. The attitude of the culture there that grew so grating and exclusionary and comes off as so self-centered. The attitude that twist and tries to frame simply being considerate of others feelings as some form of oppression of their free speech. The kind of attitude that wore me down for years, that I just had to put up with if I wanted to have any fun talking about something like music or video games or cartoons or whatever on an image board, that I was relieved to abandon after ponychan showed up and was self-consciously the opposite
of that. >I don't think I could ever buy that, considering I've been in places where the terms are common, and it didn't seem hostile at all. That's what I'm getting at.
Have you not considered that perhaps people who would find the atmosphere hostile and depressing because
of those terms were all driven away? And that that might skewer the the impression of the way things are in those places? Yeah, of course no one there would care, if everyone who had a problem with it has already left.
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I'm just sucking up for privileges, of course.
srsly tho I've been hungry for more people who actually care about pony around here and you (all or at least some) seem into it so...finally a reason to look forward to Thursdays and Sundays, to discuss toys yaaay.
Lookin forward to getting to know you all better. What would you say is different/unique about you, Grace? What are your favorite things and what do you not like?>>2518
Ha, you're drafted. Do Not Try To Escape.
You could say we care too much about ponies, maybe. We fashioned ourselves after them to help give us each a stronger sense of identity.
I personally like to think I'm composed, determined, and well-spoken. My favorite things? I'm still figuring that out, but I do appreciate the excitement of making personal choices, so I suppose everything is a bit enjoyable.
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Which pony is yours?
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It's hard to say. None of the ponies in the show seem particularly well-composed or egotistical enough. There are egotistical ponies and well-composed ponies separately, sure, but not as one character.
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Why not Diamond Tiara?
She's egotistical and generally well composed.
You can pick between before or after reformation depending on if you want a mean streak.
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How bout Daybreaker then?
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I hate to say it, because I dislike her, but honestly Glim Glam would suit you well, Grace. She's egotistical, relatively well composed, intelligent, and has a history of conquest
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I don't even have thoughts to think about, that's how nonchalant I am on the subject. When it happened, I kinda barely knew it was happening, and didn't really care either way.
Now that this thread is out there, I guess my thoughts are that there wasn't an outside vision of needing to do anything, and so doing things has caused people to react with some mild level of panic. There also seems to be some concern over the MPD thing, and even some bad history between !!Luna and some of the users that I couldn't have even imagined had happened until everyone started acting weird about it.
In the end, though, I'm still more worried about how !!Luna feels during all of this, because they have a tendency to withdraw from people and they always seem to be depressed. I'm not sure there's going to be any negative impacts to them being back in regards to the site and its moderation, though, if there's an impact at all.
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>>2520>That knee-jerk response of "I did nothing wrong!" before saying "oops, sorry, I hadn't considered that" is self-centered.
I fundamentally disagree.
When some asshole says "Hey, you, that thing you're saying that doesn't affect anyone? It makes you a terrible person!", it's 100% reasonable to argue against that. Anyone would do that. And, that's assuming you're arguing for yourself
, not for some others, like I'm doing here, right now.
I'm standing here defending people who've been called selfish and uncaring without empathy.
Besides, how is forcing your own troubles and issues on unrelated people any less selfish? How is calling them scumbags any less of a dick move in that regard? If you're going to dismiss them all as selfish jerks who don't care if they negatively effect people, then surely you have to understand the same sort of item can apply in reverse, right? I mean, insulting others definitely negatively affects them.>Well, I mean, you're the own twisting and reframing having consideration for others and maybe coming off as an ass for not showing that consideration as if someone were "demanding" you to change. That's making a mountain out of a molehill.
Right, and you're the guy maybe coming off as an ass for demanding consideration else you'll condemn others as selfish and uncaring, making a mountain out of a molehill.>But the word "fag" is.
Yeah, no, I know. But, did you know different words have different contexts? People can use words differently?
It's common within urban black areas to call one another "nigger". despite its use as a racial slur. Does that mean they're a bunch of inconsiderate selfish jerks? Do they just not care if they remind other people of how shit their lives are?>knowing that it's used that way, then that does kind of place a responsibility on their shoulders, as they could reasonably be expected to understand that certain words are commonly used to hurt others.
So basically black people who say "nigger" in a friendly manner to one another are bad people, as they're using a word that they know can hurt people.
I don't buy it. That sounds dumb to me.>. I have explicitly stated, as I just did to Thauma here, and in posts before this, that even if it's understood that someone is not using a usually hostile word in a hostile way, it doesn't mean that someone isn't going to feel a negative association with it just because they know it's not being used in a hostile manner, it's not always about whether or not they feel like they are being personally attacked.
Which is exactly my complaint
You're acting as though I'm misinterpreting you here, I do not believe I am. You're saying that you cannot say slurs in a friendly manner, ever, regardless of context or social standards. It's not complex. You're saying that if you use the phrase "newfag" you're an inconsiderate selfish jerk.> But you can't change anyone's past experiences with those hostile words by doing that, you can't change how it makes them feel simply to be around them simply by using them in a non-hostile manner, especially if they have been on the receiving end of that hostility and abuse. Even if they understand you mean no harm, it can still make them feel like shit to just be around them.
Then that's their problem
. If you are so triggered by words like that that you cannot look at the context, and you have to selfishly
push your own weakness on others to make them feel like shit as a result of you calling them selfish and inconsiderate, that's entirely on you
.>And if one understands that such words are commonly used abusively, then one can be held accountable for using words that they can reasonably expect someone might not be comfortable being around because of their experience of abuse with it.
So, again, with the N word, black people who use it in a friendly manner to one another are being abusive jerks. Coolio.>Again, it doesn't matter how it's being used in any one moment to someone who has been abused with it. Even if they understand it's not being used as an expression of hostility in context.
I think it does. If they cannot take consideration for the context, they've got some serious problems that people should not be expected to cater to. >And there we go, the precise attitude that was the reason that I grew sick of being around 4chan for so long. The attitude of the culture there that grew so grating and exclusionary and comes off as so self-centered.
It's not about being self-centered, man. It's about applying the same standard to others as you'd apply to yourself. Because frankly, you're coming across as an extremely
self-obsessed moral crusader type. You're coming accross as extremely unemphatic. You've got the attitude of not at all giving a damn about labeling people some seriously terrible shit, making major accusations of them and their intentions, based on your own subjective view, which hilariously doesn't ever apply to yourself, evidently.>Have you not considered that perhaps people who would find the atmosphere hostile and depressing because of those terms were all driven away?
Have you not considered that perhaps people who would find the hostile atmosphere you give off because of your moral crusading and attacks on others who dare disagree with you drives people away from you?
Have you at all considered you might be contributing to a toxic atmosphere that was a huge
part of why I ended up moving to MLPchan back in the day, away from Ponychan and its extremely self-centered popularity competition judgementfest?
Because, seriously, this is exactly the type of attitude that burnt me out of that place. The ease people have of assuming the absolute worst in others, the hilarious hypocrisy of people who whine about empathy and compassion while calling others selfish and unempathetic, and generally calling folk who disagree some of the most terrible stuff out there.
Like, this whole thing seems to give a shocking lack of self reflection ,to me. You can't claim to be empathetic, you can't claim to care about what you might say about other people, when at the same time, you're calling people selfish assholes for talking as they please with friends in their own communities.
>>2520>But if the response is something like "well I don't have to care about other's feelings!" or some sort of denial that anyone might be negatively effected instead of something like "oops, my bad, sorry about that", well then, I'm going to see that person as self-centered and selfish
The problem here is that you're assuming
that's the response.
You're also demonstrating that you
don't give a damn about their feelings, directly, without implication, because you're straight up saying
that they're selfish assholes.
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This is a pretty decent conversation, but maybe start a thread for it? Maybe it's too late for that now, I dunno. Just doesn't seem like this is the right thread.
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I dunno if I really want to continue it, to be honest. He kind of started with some passive-aggressive insults, and it seems to only be getting worse now.
Just going outright saying "maybe coming off as an ass", now.
Don't think I like this guy, bluntly put.
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Well that's fair, I guess. I already gave my opinion on the subject way higher up, so I haven't been reading the text walls.
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Still fighting about that nice word?
I mean its not even four-lettered. How can it be bad.
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I know I'm a bit late but
HOLY SHIT YOU'RE BACK! HI! We missed you!
Or at least I did.
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I hope i get to meet Braze today.
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no, but we co-operate to make it a bit easier
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Have you chosen a pony to represent your own unique perspective and qualities?
a lost pony chooses a Pinky ponk pony pie because while she's oversensitive to things said to her and quick to despair when she doesn't get validation, she's also quick to recover when given that validation and wishes to be positive and share it with everyone.
For a while I saw her as the pony I wanted to be with
and Twiggy more as the pony that represents me, but I realized that thinking I'm smart, neurotic and diligent like PurpleSmart is inaccurate wishful thinking. A simpler-minded, emotionally driven and impressionable but deeply compassionate individual is more the pony I wanna be.
you certainly seem compassionate and sweet, i'd say pinkie fits you will
i'm just posting as nightmare moon because nightmare moon is angry and abrasive
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So you are feeling angry and abrasive?
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not so much right now, since i trust you
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Is that a defining characteristic in general?
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it's true, those bipeds are awful.
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Omigosh i loved meeting Braze today.
Next up: omigosh omigosh omigosh it's Abby! Toy time yaaay lookin forward to tomorrow.
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>>2578>people hurt each other too much, is what it boils down to
Sometimes a person's own body cells hurt and even kill him. In fact, cancer is one of the leading causes of death.
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i've done my fair share of hurting, i never said i didn't hate myself too
Don't talk about things you don't understand. >>2583
I shouldn't get into it yet.>>2586
Ponychanners told me all about it. Please know you are not the only one hurting and please try to forgive. Forgiveness is as much for yourself as others. Your hate is keeping your hurt alive.
Thats right this is none of my business and im sorry to be in your way. again. I dont have to say any more if you dont prompt me.
Well, I want you to know I'm not angry at you. But I feel like you don't have the whole story. Since you haven't heard my side of it from me.
Unfortunately, I don't think here is a good place to get into it. It would only derail things further. But I wouldn't be against talking to you about it some time and some place later, to make sure you have all the facts straight.
You know my discord or you can suggest a place. If and when you want to.
I'm grateful, mr Manley.
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Maybe each of your personalities can introduce themselves and tell us something unique about themselves?
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I hope happy days find you again soon!
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It highlights the irrational fear/intolerance people have regarding mental health. Even among supposed pony people and it's so good to hear a constructive comment like yours, thanks!>>2614<
I'm in mad pony love with the sisters and i'm so happy to know youses. I hope that's ok to say!
edit: i just noticed my name is missing. In case there was any doubt, this is lost pony.