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Recently, the thread >>1975
had been locked, at the time following a post made by !!Scootaloo, that has since been deleted. Unfortunately, the thread had not really run its course, outside of maybe how Mooney's going to have staff preform in the future.
I'm not really sure why the thread was locked overall, and, since the post made by !!Scootaloo was the last I saw, I was quite enraged by the action. It seems that post was deleted, however, so it's possible I simply misunderstood the reasoning for it being locked, as would be apparent by my original OP post. Either way, though, the thread's clearly not run its course, as !!Scootaloo and I were still speaking to one another on the subject, mainly around whether his assertions had any grounding at all.
Initially I had major issue with the deletion, having largely assumed it was done by !!Scootalo to again have the last word, but, if that is not the case, I apologize. I shouldn't've looked at it like that.
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Welp, doesn't seem like I can figure out how to.
Really need to be a tad more cautious with these things. Should've archived, or otherwise saved what was there. Really missed the ball.
Still, point being, it was basically the same insult again, after a constant misreading of both my intentions and the occurrences in the thread. Not great, and, given that the issue has clearly not been settled, outside of Mooney's saying it at least won't happen again [though I'm really questioning if that's going to happen], I'd've preferred it not be locked.
The message is still present, and presented as fact, and of course the guy who said it sees absolutely nothing wrong with making gross mischaracterizations or otherwise assuming the absolute worst in others, either.
Needless to say, this means I'm still fired up some on the lot.
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That's a fair point. I shouldn't do that.
I probably should go over the main OP, too, honestly. Most of it was writ in rather sharp anger, following reading the last lot without a way to counter.
Though, I'm not really sure how to rephrase it while maintaining my overall issue.
a lost pony believes this is most likely an accurate interpretation.>>2093
Nooms the mods are people too. I believe it's time to move on, if you can. Just because there's a sticky spot doesn't mean we are not all still family here. Please be forgiving and know that you are one of us, and be happy together as we grow.
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Original OP for transparency.>>2098
I don't really move on easily, unfortunately.
It's something of a possible fault of mine, and likely why I get in to a fair few fights overall.
Forgiveness is fine. I can do that. But, it's a bit of a different thing if you ask me to stand aside on things. I have my trench, he has his, and while I'm perfectly happy to make peace, I'm not one to just abandon my position. I unno. Maybe that's a stupid way to conduct one's self, but, stuff like this matters a lot to me.
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For some transparency.
It wasn't JUST !!Scoot's opinion to close the thread (the one with you vs Manley). Nor was it just theirs that both you and Manley were trying to 'win', rather than actually debate. About 4 (if not more) of us were in agreement that that's how it looked, it's why the post says 'we'. If that wasn't your intention on your end, then you may want to try and change the way you debate. We're not trying to hurt or insult you, that's not who we are.
You obviously have some kind of issue getting your points across, or in general... discussing in a manner where others can mostly or truly understand you. Maybe try being less blunt, keeping personal attacks at bay, stop holding grudges so often, stop thinking the worst of everyone, and be patient with the person you're talking with. Ask them, politely, if they understand what 'x' is and what you're trying to get across. If they don't understand, don't attack them for not understanding. You're never gonna get anywhere that way. Try and walk them through it, slowly and calmly, so they can understand you. No one is perfect in getting their thoughts across and no one is perfect in understanding things. If after a reasonable effort that they still don't understand... it'd be better to just drop the convo or take a step back for awhile to take a breather (on both sides) rather than banging your head against a wall for hours on end.
You obviously haven't been feeling that well this week (and I'm sorry that you are), so doing stuff like this I think would help you out greatly.
Please take this into consideration (and hopefully it's not conveyed in a condescending manner, as that's not my intention). Again, we're not trying to hurt you.
Also note, I don't know who locked the previous thread so I can't give answers there.
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I understand. I don't really have an issue with the original /pony/ thread being locked, over all, and I can certainly understand that me and Manley were largely just fighting and talking past one another.
My issue is mostly the negative assertions about me and my character, presented as fact, and posted for everyone to see.
I certainly can get rather hot-headed at times, and I find it very easy to respond with hostility when I feel I'm met with hostility, so, you're probably right on those lines. I really ought to work on those things.
I gotta be honest, though, I'm not sure how to get the whole understanding aspect through. Most people just accuse you of being condescending if you ask if they understand, and, for example with the last thread here on /site/, even when I repeat myself countless times for some 75+ posts, it sometimes still doesn't end up going through.
It does cause a bit of a loss of patience there. Maybe I need to rely on others more, try to get someone else to help me find a way to phrase it.
I dunno. At least I feel like I've mostly fixed the major issue between me and Manley. That is to say, it probably won't get to the level it was before. Maybe I need to just apply that standard to everyone, though it feels a tad wrong to do to be quite honest.
I know how powerful the impulse to fight is, to stick to your guns for what seems right at the time.
I've done that with Manley, the staff here and with you, as you remember. Nothing positive resulted.
There is a time to abandon our position and reach out in peace.
I suggest that this is that time.
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I dunno, man, there's a difference between making peace, and surrendering.
Like, I can agree that there's plenty of room for making steps to have peace as an option, but, I don't think I'm the kind of guy who can just abandon my principles like that.
I don't even know if I want to be the kind of guy who can.
Maybe I get a tad too touchy on too little, but, at the same time I'm a fair bit afraid I'll end up losing that fire as I grow older. I need it, if I'm ever going to change anything, if I'm ever going to feel like I was dong right by me.
It's not that I'm opposed to, say, agreeing to disagree, or to end amicably. I mean, you can see that with Ponychan, not that long ago. I just don't think I can really walk away without getting to that point, I guess.
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What part of !!Scoot's post did you have issues with, specifically?
That would definitely help.
I can understand that. You could let them know that at times you have difficulty getting your point across and ask them if they'd like you to clarify. If they don't want you to clarify (and they don't understand), you can just end the convo there. There's no point to continue investing anymore into it if that happens. If they still see it as condescending, tell them that that wasn't your intention (like I did). Ask them what you can do to help them understand you. Also, asking for someone else's help wouldn't be a bad thing either.
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With the >>>/pony/857859
lot, that'd be the whole "more concerned with proving that the other is morally invalid", and "attempting to discredit your opponent" parts.
It's not what I was concerned with, or what I was trying to do, basically.
I said this a lot in the other thread.> If they don't want you to clarify (and they don't understand), you can just end the convo there.
Just ending the conversation isn't going to change anything, though. I could've just ended the last thread, but, then it might happen again. Nothing'd be different.>What standard?
Essentially that they can't
understand, due to mental troubles.
They lack the cognitive functionality required to follow along.
It sort of solves the problem, sure, but it also requires thinking everyone's rather below you, not to mention assuming they're inept. Seems a dangerous route to go, even though it does get rid of the problem of hostility.
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To us, that's how it looked. The parts where you believed him to be a liar and assuming malice, for example. You both were very emotionally charged. When there's stuff like that that causes a thread to be closed, we have to call it out. It might not have been your intention, but it's what it ended up being. Mondo actually warned you guys twice in the thread. (or maybe better put, a nudge to at least not do it on the site)https://ponyville.us/pony/res/849668.html#850895https://ponyville.us/pony/res/849668.html#850880
Maybe it should've been done with a mod tag on Mondo's part, and if so, then sure we were in the wrong there. Nor did I want to get involved because I believed that at least your state at the time would escalate things due to the 'lizard with a leash' ordeal you had strong feelings for from before in relation to me.
I think in that situation maybe if you would've let it end... later on when you both were in better spirits and mind, could've sorted it out better (or just get into a different, but not heated, conversation [more casual conversations]). Otherwise... No one is going to agree on everything. Disagreements are going to happen, but it's how you disagree and how you go about it is where it matters. Work on your issues so at the very least the person you're debating with has the best chance to understand you and of course, not escalate things with anger/passion. At the end of the day if you and the person you're debating with just can not come to terms with one another, don't talk with them. That might be hard but if it has to be done it has to be done. Least in this kind of situation.
I'm not... sure that's the best of practices honestly. (an understatement)
I'd advise maybe try what I've said first. Give said person the benefit of the doubt, every chance to understand you, get help from someone else if needed, keep anger and personal attacks at bay as best as you can, walk away for a bit if need be, etc.
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I feel this is a large crux of the issue, here.
There was a massive gap from there to now. And, that large part that Mondo was talking about? That was mostly solved. We didn;t quite get that hot headed at that.
As for !!Scootaloo's post there, well, that was mostly to Manley and LP and some anon's chat, form what I followed. It was getting hot there, not really too much from me. We're talking 29 posts before I had said anything. 29 posts were made between the time I had posted >>>/pony/856334
and !!Scootaloo had replied.
And, I think overall I stood by his warning, there. I don't recall much of anything as far as insults after that point, really. Unless you count the insulting aspect of accusatory remarks later on by Manley, saying I was "trying to get him banned" anyway.
Is this why he got that impression, though?
Because of the context of the thread ages ago, which had mostly been figured out honestly, and wasn't much the issue any more?
Like, I figured you guys'd be doing a bit of investigation, so I kind of assumed you'd know the context that lead to the rekindling of that thread. It wasn't like we continued an argument for ages on end, here. That thread died, Manley brought it up somewhere else, and so we came back to it.
I believe it was this threadhttp://ponyville.us/pony/res/854335.html
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I think a lot of people (1) are way too quick in assuming that other people have bad intentions and (2) vastly underestimate how easy it is accidentally miscommunicate. Discussion would be much improved, IMHO, if people look for other explanations when they're tempted to assume bad faith and in any case generally refrain from voicing accusation of bad intentions.
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Probably. It's definitely something I need to work on, though it's a tad hard when it's something that seems so obvious to me or otherwise has been said multiple times.
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Hi noonim. After a lengthy staff discussion, we think the points you've made have some merit, and that the response we gave in the thread lock was not appropriate. Although we still feel you've violated the respect portion of the rules, and the warning is warranted, the way we handled the situation was absolutely unwarranted. We'll refrain from handling rule violations like that in the future.
Some things that are very obvious to some can be almost unthinkable to others, no matter how many times it's been said. Everypony here comes from vastly different walks of life, and there as many ways to see the world as people living in it
I think this is a very good idea to hold in mind before confronting anypony about anything, so you don't end up hurting yourself or somepony else
Just to be clear, you mean the canterlot thread, right? I didn't really have an issue with the locking of the /pony/ thread.
I don't really mind the warning, though admittedly I would've preferred it sooner, rather than later. So, that's all fine.
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Judging by the remainder of the post >>2115
, I'm guessing that "the response we gave in the thread lock" refers to the text in >>>/pony/857859
(and particularly the first sentence of that post).
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yes, sorry, i meant the response we gave in the /pony/ thread.
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Ah, gotcha. Wasn't quite sure.
It's all good, then. Though I still'd prefer the post be otherwise changed, but, like I said earlier, it doesn't matter that much since it isn't on the front page any more.
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I keep my word, and I've taken a few days to think about things.
Please accept my personal apology for false accusations and oversighthttps://ponyville.us/pony/res/849668.html#861965