[ home ] [ pony / townhall / rp / canterlot / rules ] [ arch ]

/townhall/ - Townhall

A place for civilized animals
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
File
Flags  
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

[Return][Go to bottom]

 No.2538[View All]

File: 1569693114530.jpg (61.88 KB, 670x377, 670:377, gummy.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

Should we consider a person being romantically involved with a racist to be a tacit endorsement of racism?

Would you ever be romantically involved with a racist, if you yourself are not one?
411 posts and 63 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.3135

File: 1570235323968.png (191.05 KB, 463x481, 463:481, 153.png) ImgOps Google

>>3134
And they said I was insane for wanting the Dyson swarm completed.

 No.3136

>>3134
The point is that he's declaring people evil because of their supposed intention. Even though he does not know that intention.
it goes beyond emotional harm, as I had discussed with him earlier in the thread, because of course he does not find himself to me evil. Even though he has certainly caused me plenty of emotional harm.

But if you are saying that people can tell you what they believe, then I completely agree. I always tend to take people at face value. For example, when mint horse tells people that doesn't intend to hurt people with his beliefs, I believe him. I have no reason not to. One should always try to assume people are being honest with them, after all. At least when it comes to their beliefs.

>I've forgotten literally every time I've banned you.  I don't even have a real count anymore.  4-6ish somewhere.
it wasn't even that many, but that explains a lot about the low quality standard you seem to apply.
in any case, the last band, the one that I made a massive threat over, rather unequivocally demonstrates what you claim here to be false.

I won't call you a liar, but, certainly, you seem to be misinformed about your own standard.

 No.3137

File: 1570235506125.jpeg (19.66 KB, 236x253, 236:253, 3A713B53-4084-47C0-B178-7….jpeg) ImgOps Google

>>3126
I believe that a British ethnostate should be established in Britain in which at least 95% (preferably >99%) of the population would be British, and all non-British people (specifically non-White people) would be regarded as second class citizens, which would exclude them from the political process and other areas which are considered to be of great concern to the British people. I’d preferably pay all the non-British people to go back to their country of ancestral origin, in hopes that they’ll use that money to improve both their own lives and lives of their people in their countries, but I believe at this point civil war is unfortunately inevitable.

I also believe that there are inherent differences between the races and that White people are generally superior to most non-White people, although I’d regard East Asians, Jews, and Brahmin as being equal, and in many ways even superior to White people as a group.

Despite the what some may see as hypocrisy, I not only believe that these views don’t contradict my vegan beliefs, but actually perfectly coincide with them. I believe that all sentient life has worth and that it should be protected and cared for to the greatest extent possible, but I also wouldn’t want an animal infestation in my house, in the same way that I don’t want non-British people in my country. And I would try to get these unwanted animals to leave my house in the most peaceful manner possible.

>inb4 comparing non-British people to animals
There’s a big difference between a comparison and an analogy, look it up. I wasn’t comparing non-British people to animals, I was making an analogy:

>>3133
>Because holding the view that certain people are less intelligent that others on a genetic level is something that has no basis in science is it always contested.
It’s well known that literally every other trait is based on genetics, at least to some extent. Why would intelligence be the only outlier?

 No.3138

>>3131
I knew you feigning of civility would not last. You can think I'm an evil person all you want, it says more about you than about me.

>>3132
I meant more removing the racists from larger society to help society, more than help the racists themselves.

>Citation needed.
It's not really something you can prove or disprove. Just my observations. Mint horse feels no remorse for being a racist and thinks that being a racist is not only good, but justified. No attempts to unracist him have been successful.

>I think to end racism an alien invasion needs to take place so every human can kill the threat. Enemy of my enemy type thing.

You seem to have a more nihilistic view on humanity than I do. I think we can achieve peace. We just have to give a shit.

>>3134
I gave it in >>3120 and >>3128

 No.3139

>>3138
You literally just misunderstood my position. Case and fucking point.

I straight-up tell you that I do not see you as an evil person, and you somehow interpret this as me seeing you as an evil person.
You are blind to reality. You only see whatever you want to see.

And for the record, my civility only ended to help demonstrate a point. I do believe all those things, but that's besides the point. I would not use those things to justify calling you evil.
And frankly, I wouldn't normally even voice them in the first place, given that it's incredibly rude to do so.
Given that you accept that it's uncivil, you should then see why I didn't much care for you doing the same thing to mint. due to the standards that apparently apply to you, I figure I might as well respond in kind. After all if it's going to be okay by the site's standards, it should certainly be okay by mine

 No.3140

>>3137
>It’s well known that literally every other trait is based on genetics, at least to some extent. Why would intelligence be the only outlier?

It's not tied to race. You're conflating "genetics" with race, which is only a tiny portion of one's genetic make up. In fact, two "black" people can be more genetically dissimilar to each other than a white and black person are to each other.  I've explained this to you, and you've ignored it. Because you're a bad person.

 No.3141

>>3110
>We've spent much of this thread already establishing what "racism" is in this context.
Did you finish reading my post?  I'd like to re-emphasize (>>3107):
>I think it is bad to be intolerant of others' sincerely-held beliefs.  In the past, such intolerance has lead to many atrocities.

 No.3142

>>3141
Racism has lead to more atrocities than not accepting racism.

 No.3144

>>3142
I think you will find that most atrocities in the world weren't done in the name of race, but rather, either religion, ideology, or simple economics.

racism, I would say, rarely seems to play into it. Certainly it didn't in the case of the Soviet Union, near as I can tell.

 No.3145

File: 1570235852419.png (131.96 KB, 394x455, 394:455, 17.png) ImgOps Google

>>3138
>I meant more removing the racists from larger society to help society
What if the larger society is racist secretly? I'm using the definition of discriminating someone purely based on their ethnicity for this one. Be it positive or negative.

>It's not really something you can prove or disprove
Please don't state it as fact then.

>Mint horse feels no remorse for being a racist and thinks that being a racist is not only good
More observations, or do you have a method of feeling what others are thinking and feeling?

> I think we can achieve peace. We just have to give a shit.
Oof, tough break there bud.

 No.3146

>>3139
I see no other way to take all the things you claimed to think about me in >>3127 as anything else than you seeing me as an evil, bad person. In fact, I'm confused how you're taking umbrage with that reading. Why tell me all those horrible things you think about me if not to communicate you think I'm bad? Other than to hurt me emotionally, that is.

 No.3147

>>3136
>The point is that he's declaring people evil because of their supposed intention. Even though he does not know that intention.

I might be misunderstanding, but I feel like knowing the intention is a prerequisite to the calling them evil part.  If their intentions were dangerously racist then they would be evil.  He believes this of the person in question because he's heard his intentions.

>>3137

That seems like a whole lot of effort and money in order to pull it off.  What exactly is the goal there?  What are you hoping happens if non-British people weren't in Britain?

>>3138
>I knew you feigning of civility would not last.

He's mostly still being civil.  It's not like we didn't already know how much he hated you.

>>3138
>I gave it in >>3120 and >>3128

Ah, well, I agree with those points, for sure.  I was more curious about what you'd do about "existing racists".

 No.3148

>>3146
To specifically demonstrate that I do not believe you are intentionally causing me harm.
Or perhaps I should put it as, I do not think that is certain.
Evil is something I believe matters. The standards by which we declare something to be evil should be held to high scrutiny. It is not something we should throw around based solely on our feelings, opinion, or subjective interpretation.
if I were to call you evil, I would have to have been directly told by you that you are intentionally causing harm to others. I cannot see in your skull, after all. Despite how I feel, to declare you as evil without getting that from you would be, in my opinion, unjust.

 No.3149

>>3144
I didn't say racism caused the most atrocities overall. Just that it's caused more atrocities than not accepting racism.

>>3145
I don't believe that it is, but if it is, we should work toward having less and less racist people each generation. More than likely, most people today are less racist than their grandparents were. We can continue on this path.

>or do you have a method of feeling what others are thinking and feeling?

He's directly stated it. A few times in this thread, in fact.

 No.3151

>>3146
>>3148

That just sounds like you disagreeing on what would make someone evil.  I don't think that's really a misinterpretation, as such.

 No.3152

File: 1570236172459.png (137.9 KB, 374x433, 374:433, 71.png) ImgOps Google

>>3149
>More than likely, most people today are less racist than their grandparents were
Probably. I miss that old racist bastard.

I just read. You should do something about proving his beliefs wrong then.

 No.3153

>>3147
> I was more curious about what you'd do about "existing racists".

Not much can be done. They cannot be unracist'd, and we cannot incarcerate them unless they commit a hate crime. It's a sad situation, which is why we should work to inoculate future generations from it to keep it from spreading.

 No.3154

>>3147
It was a part of the discussion why racism is evil. I had stated that I am not certain they are.
In the discussion of what constitutes evil, intentionally causing harm to others was brought up.
That is what makes racist evil, at least according to what he had said prior

 No.3155

File: 1570236263272.png (223.72 KB, 572x482, 286:241, 76.png) ImgOps Google

>>3153
>They cannot be unracist'd
Citation needed.

 No.3156

>>3152
I did respond to him.

>>3148
And it's my belief that anyone who chooses to continue to be racist, even when confronted on those beliefs, is choose to do harm (emotional and psychological, and potentially physical harm) to others. This is an intentional choice.

 No.3157

>>3155
If you've got an idea on how to do it, I'd like to hear it.

 No.3158

>>3151
The example was provided to suggest why it isn't okay to declare somebody evil because of your assumptions about them.

Manly have suggested prior at racists intentionally cause harm to those of other races.
I did not agree with this. I have known plenty of races did not want to cause anyone harm.

 No.3159

>>3156
So, as I had asked earlier and you ignored, is it the intention, or the action?

Because you had certainly insulted me plenty of times and very hurtful ways well after I had explained to you in great detail why they were hurtful. Or if you prefer, you intentionally chose to continue that behavior.

So, which is it?
Are You evil by your own standards, or are you just assuming the intention of racists?

 No.3161

>>3156
>>3158

I think there's another gap in here that needs to be answered.

Does it matter if your actions are intentional and they cause harm?  Or do you have to intend to cause harm?

Mint, for example, seemingly does not believe it would cause harm to people if they were all booted out of Britain.  This seems incorrect, even if you're sending them away with money and stuff to help out their home countries (which they might have never been to at this point).  But I'm willing to believe that he's just incorrect and not actually lying about how much he wants to hurt people.

 No.3162

>>3157
The guy who had befriended and deradicalized KKK members, for one. As had already been posted

 No.3163

File: 1570236584537.png (118.46 KB, 437x328, 437:328, 13.png) ImgOps Google

>>3156
I saw, wasn't very convincing.

>>3157
Have a person that hates a certain type of race get their life saved by a person of that race. Worked for my grandma.

 No.3164

File: 1570236635234.jpeg (75.78 KB, 910x879, 910:879, D4EE20A9-381E-4549-B336-4….jpeg) ImgOps Google

>>3140
I’m fully aware of that fact, but those are just extreme examples, I’m generalising. Besides if anything that just proves that some Black people are more dissimilar to Whites than others, not that any group is similar, just that some are more dissimilar.

>Because you're a bad person.
You don’t need to keep reminding me.

>>3147
You don’t get it, Britain being British is the goal in of itself. The goal is to preserve the British people and their culture to the greatest extent possible, which of course involves removing all threats to said goals.

Anyway, I think I’m going to bail before this goes to far. I think I’ve made my point and I promised that I wouldn’t cause anymore drama. Sorry if anyone had anymore questions for me.

 No.3165

>>3128
>racism is not treatable in people who are already racist. So there's nothing really we can do to deal with existing racists.
That's false and it's been disproven to you more than once with a counterexample.

 No.3166

>>3161
You see that gap because you didn't see the prior conversation on the particular subject. That's further up in the thread.

Intention is important, because after all, if it wasn't, by manly standards, manly would be evil.



Personally, it is my stance that any action which directly harms unjustly other individuals is evil. You could theoretically boot out people without causing direct harm, however, the problem there would still be that it's unjust. Justice and harm are of course two different things, and I don't think that necessarily having an unjust system, society, or action, makes you evil.

 No.3167

>>3164
>You don’t need to keep reminding me.

Why not? You could choose to stop being bad at any moment.

>>3165
Then why is a racist posting in this thread? Why does he resist any attempts to unracist him?

 No.3168

>>3142
>Racism has lead to more atrocities than not accepting racism.
Intolerance has lead to more atrocities than tolerance of other ideologies.  

 No.3169

>>3166
I think you're grasping at straws to make me out to be the bad guy because you don't like me. I don't like you, but I've never once called you evil.

>>3168
Some ideologies should not be defended. Ones that dehumanize and harm other groups.

 No.3170

File: 1570236868453.png (183.15 KB, 403x495, 403:495, 209.png) ImgOps Google

>>3167
>Why does he resist any attempts to unracist'd him?
We're saying racism is treatable, and have proven it with multiple examples.

You're saying it's not treatable, because of one person on a pony based imageboard.

 No.3171

>>3167
Because sometimes things take time? because sometimes you have to actually make arguments, instead of insulting and belittling them? Because maybe it's a better way to go to try to be friendly and polite to a racist, if you want to encourage them to get away from racism, then claiming that they are evil and that anyone associated with them including their girlfriend is also evil?

 No.3172

>>3169
I never said you called me evil. Again, you misrepresent me

I had only claimed that you called racists evil.

 No.3173

File: 1570236975790.png (165.32 KB, 571x462, 571:462, 154.png) ImgOps Google

>>3171
This too, never got anyone on my side by constantly telling them they're an evil human being because they believe in something I don't. That would be so intolerant of me.

 No.3174

>>3167
>Then why is a racist posting in this thread? Why does he resist any attempts to unracist him?
Do you really not see how the form of your argument is invalid?  Let me give another example with the same form, to make it easier for you to see this:
PREMISE: Someone dies of cancer.
CONCLUSION: Cancer is not treatable.

 No.3176

File: 1570237101943.png (3.01 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, cgadine.png) ImgOps Google

>>3173
Maybe you have to be a preacher for that type of thing to work.

 No.3177

>>3169
>Some ideologies should not be defended. Ones that dehumanize and harm other groups.
Racism doesn't necessarily dehumanize.

 No.3178

File: 1570237145048.png (222.62 KB, 600x462, 100:77, 23.png) ImgOps Google

>>3174
>Cancer is not  treatable
>Actually there have been several cases where if caught early enough or depending on the type you can cur
>Actually someone died from Cancer, so it's not treatable.

 No.3179

>>3172
I'm not claiming you said I called you evil... Gah...

I'm stating that I have never called you evil, even though I don't like you at all. So you trying to call me evil is uncalled for.

>>3171
I've spoken with him in private and made those arguments to him. He refused to listen. He has no interest in not being a racist, and so cannot be changed.

If his attitude was different, if he were raised in a racist household but openly wished to leave racism behind, then I would probably be friends with him. At the very least, I would try to help him work toward that goal. That's not him. He has to show a desire to change first. He does not and will not.

>>3177
How do you figure that?

 No.3180

>>3178
Ha ha. Very funny. I don't think this is comparable.

 No.3181

File: 1570237307804.png (250.42 KB, 711x513, 79:57, 44.png) ImgOps Google

>>3176
Nah, preachers have evolved to not talk down on people as much. Evidently talking about a fiery inferno for an hour is a buzzkill.

>>3180
I think it's very accurate, given the responses.

 No.3183

>>3177

Not necessarily, but I think the trend is fairly strong.  Even in something like Mint's ideas where he wants them to do well, he literally does also think that of animals.  The immediate effects might not be dehumanizing, but separating groups from each other can 'cause one to seem less important because they're not part of "the tribe".

>>3172
>>3179

Well let's drop how evil you think each other might be unless its proven to be on topic.  In fact, it might be better to drop "evil" entirely, since it's clearly a very charged word for one person and slightly less so for the other.  Doesn't seem like the best word to use while communicating.

 No.3184

>>3183
Do you have a suggestion for another one? I'm about to end my conversation with him. It's impossible to communicate with someone who so openly hates you.

 No.3185

>>3181
Mint is not the only reason I think racism is "untreatable". His attitude is just emblematic of the wider problem. The WHY of how he is, not just that he is the way he is.

 No.3186

>>3179
Right. But I wouldn't call you evil as we established.

My contention is that you call racists evil despite not knowing their intentions.

>I've spoken with him in private and made those arguments to him. He refused to listen. He has no interest in not being a racist, and so cannot be changed
So because you couldn't do it, nobody can?
That seems a tad silly to me.
especially since, I have to say, your augmentation hasn't ever been impressive to me at least.

>If his attitude was different, if he were raised in a racist household but openly wished to leave racism behind, then I would probably be friends with him. At the very least, I would try to help him work toward that goal. That's not him. He has to show a desire to change first. He does not and will not.
as a general rule, in order to convince people to change their ways, you must first convince them it's a problem. I'm not sure why you are telling me that, if he wanted to change, if he thought racism was bad and he wanted to get rid of it, you'd work with him. That's the opposite of what we are talking about here.

In order to convince anyone to change, you have to convince them that change is necessary.

 No.3187

>>3183
I wasn't talking about how evil anyone might be. Please pay attention.

This is specifically about the standard that had already been established, by manly.
this is the justification used to not only condemn racists themselves as evil, but anyone who does not assist in cutting them off from society as a heathen in the flock of the holy faithful.

 No.3188

File: 1570237951355.png (265.27 KB, 1024x1883, 1024:1883, D9BCEA7A-F5BD-480E-9F80-3C….png) ImgOps Google

>>3184
>It's impossible to communicate with someone who so openly hates you.
I agree, although I’d like to see the post where I called you evil or lied about someone you love to spite you.

 No.3189

This thread devolved into direct insults and accusations, it's no longer about genuine or thoughtful discussion. The thread is over now. Do not make another. Calling other posters "disgusting" is not acceptable, the shitposting was not acceptable, and this was a disaster.

There may be further to say after the mods talk about this.

[Chroma]


[]
[Return] [Go to top]
[ home ] [ pony / townhall / rp / canterlot / rules ] [ arch ]