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 No.836894[Last 50 Posts]

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...hey, is everything okay?


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Rough day?


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Mmh.. sorry to see.
I've had a somewhat tumultuous day myself.
It's never easy.


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now kiss


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Let it all out..

Just like a waterfall!


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I know that feel...


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>offers hug


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You can handle it.


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I hope you feel better


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Would you like to talk?


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no, but for now, I think I have cried myself out. I think I will go make another thread for a good distraction



Okey... I'll keep this thread open on my computer in case you want to talk here or in private...


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you are uncomfortable. please stop


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As you wish, your highness.


Oh shush now.



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Off to a demeaning half-shift of work that pays about zero cuz i've been too lazy to quit a job that wants me to go.

Bye now.


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Someone is not having a good day, Ella...



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Then we shall just be here for them.





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heya hisp <3

>hugs and kajis <3

how are yooooooou bro?



You nocturnal


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i'm a creature of the night!

always on the prowl, looking for hapless prey!





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you are now my prey!

and i shall feast!




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i have now feasted upon my prey

the apex predator will live another night



you aresilly.


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indeed i am!


who is gonna stop me?



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you? how will you stop me?

what plan could you possibly have?



>pats head


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acck! no! what are you...




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it seems as though my defeat has been made witness...

>hugs and kajis <3

how are you feeling?


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I do not feel like crying


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thats good

do you want to talk?


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I may need to give up my dreams of transitioning to female


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really? why do you say that?


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it's incompatible with my biblical research. I would need to renounce my faith, which I cannot do.

Surprising that it has taken 25 years for these two fundamental aspects of my life to finally come to odds, given that I have known both of them for nearly all of that time, but here we are. And surprisingly, I don't feel as torn up as I did last night.

I'm a very resilient girl.


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i don't claim to know much of anything about christianity or the bible outside of what i learned from christian neighbors and friends, but how is it incompatible?

and you are indeed a super resilient girl :33


My minister is a biblical scholar with a degree and i'm pretty sure he doesn't believe the Word has a problem with transitioning.


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>“Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:18-20‬ ‭NASB‬‬
>“For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:21-28‬ ‭NASB‬‬
>“"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭NASB‬‬
>“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.”
Deuteronomy 22:5
>“For you created my inmost being; you knit me together I my mothers Womb. I will praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. How precious to me are our thoughts, God! How vast is the sum of them!”
Psalm 139:13-17 NIV
>You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires
Ephesians 4:22 NIV
>but among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality or of any kind of impurity
Ephesians 5:3 NIV
>Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV

I cannot hold onto both my faith and my desire for transitioning. I shall have to renounce one of them.

The weird part is that I was pretty torn up about it last night, but I think I'm all cried out. I still haven't made a decision, but I feel fine for now.


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None of those words are a problem, and while a few of them pose dufficulties for homosexuals my minister taught a many-sessions long class on the context and showed that basically those all speak against slutty behavior not sexual orientation.  I don't see anything that poses an issue for gender identity.

From my perspective, much of the words in the bible are simply politically motivated words of Man, not words of God.  Which means, i care only about what Jesus said.  All the stuff before is superceded, and all that's after is not God's word.

To be clear, if you have faith in God and believe in grace, all you need do is honor that faith, and pray, give your concerns to God and follow your heart.

Please don't get lost in the tangled and twisted interpretations of men.  This is between you and the god of your faith.  If it will help you i can put you in contact with my minister.


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The brain of a transgender girl is the same of one of that of a cis gender girl, so would transitioning really be considered doing anything immoral or impure to the body? i mean, i get that there are definitely mentions of the body being a temple, and that you are woven in the form that god gave you, but at the same time, what is the body an extension of in this case?

you're brain, which is biologically that of a woman, is that which defines your gender; so at the very least what i'm getting is that even disregarding the transitioning of the body, you should still be and supported in dressing and acting as the woman you are


at the end of the day, i do not envy your position to choose between faith, or your desire for transitioning

i know what i would choose, but i'm already a non-christian with very leftist views, so i can't say i can truly empathize with the gravity of your decision


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I would appreciate that.

well therein lies the problem. Were I born into a non christian household this would be a non issue. in fact I may already have transitioned. That being said, I would also have lost my virginity long ago, because while I currently hold non-religious reasons for maintaining it, it was only recently that I came to hold those views.

Then again, perhaps not. I am a demisexual after all.


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if your holding onto your faith because of family, then is that really something that is true to you? are you holding onto your religious beliefs because you truly believe in them, or because that is how you were raised?

if you do have those views because they are true to you, then that is awesome. but if it's only just a courtesy to family, then i would have to ask have you ever thought bout what it would be like to move away from it?

like, what is truth to you?


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it's difficult to say at this point, though this is definitely the perfect opportunity to explore that avenue. I love my parents deeply, and they were the first to introduce me to the idea, so it would definitely have taken me a bit longer if I came to believe in it at all. Whether or not I still hold onto it out of loyalty to them or because I truly believe in it is difficult to say anymore, as I have done extensive research and logical debate, and found my own reasons for belief, yet I have also found inconsistencies too large to ignore. I have ultimately arrived that Christianity is the explanation for our existence that makes the most logical sense, and has the fewest flaws, however, I hold that no belief system is perfect.


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well it sorta reminds me of what the Amish do, where when their kids become 16 years old, they give them a full year to explore other avenues of life.

i think that if you were to choose to try other avenues of life, and to see if there are any other religious/philosophical views that might feel right to you

if there is one thing i have learned from my other christian friends, it's that christianity is all about that forgiveness. so if at the end of your exploration of yourself that you decide to go back, then you should be forgiven

but if what is coming between you and transitioning is religious beliefs that you are not even sure you truly believe in; then it maybe best to seek other ways of life


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the largest fear here is that my ultimate goal here is irreversible, so if I discover that I am wrong, there's nothing I can do.

However my largest motivations to seem to be a desire to please my parents, as theirs was the support I sought the most. I worry about upsetting them with my life decisions. I am also afraid that if I am wrong, when I die, what will happen?

I think I may need to take an experimental quest, as you say. I once tried for a week when I was 15, but I understood far less then than I do now. Perhaps it will be good for me.


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yeah, i wouldn't do anything permanent until you are absolutely certain with what you are looking for. I do think that if and when you decide to transition, you will be happier and more content with your life;

loving and respecting your parents is a good thing, but your life is your own, and you need to decide what to do with it, whatever it maybe.

i think an experimental quest would be good for you, to give yourself some time to really see what is truly right for you.

whatever you decide to do, you have my support, and i suspect the support of /pony/ too


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eh i hate to bail before you reply, but i do need to get to bed

>hugs and kajis <3

whatever you decide to do, you have my support <3

you are loved, my friend!



oh dear. I hadn't been typing a reply. Were you hoping for one.

In any case, thank you for your kind words.

Rest well


I won't pretend to know the right answer here, but I don't think these are irreconcilable, though it really depends on your interpretation of scripture.  Of course you can read scripture any which way you like, and there are tens of thousands of different denominations based on different readings.  I'm not suggesting that you should drop your beliefs and move to a new denomination, but rather, to recognize that perhaps there isn't just one single correct interpretation.  I'm an atheist, raised Catholic, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I have a particular appreciation for acts and good works -based religions, and along those lines, I would say that even if you do consider transitioning to be sinful, I believe the goodness within you more than outweighs it.  And in a hypothetical final analysis, I don't see how being yourself would negate all the good in your life.  No one is perfect after all.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong; that's something you will need to evaluate.  But even if you come to the conclusion that it's wrong, I still don't think it's irreconcilable.  Personally, I believe this falls into the category of things-proscribed-in-the-bible-that-made-sense-thousands-of-years-ago-but-which-no-longer-reflect-the-present-day-realities.  There are plenty of examples of this sort of thing that I'm sure you're already aware of and which even most religious people will ignore.


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I know this is going to sound kind of harsh and I apologise in advance.

As someone who is still attempting to transition myself: Drop the book. That thing has destroyed more lives that can probably be calculated. It pretends to be good for you but at the end of the day it nothing but a collection of lies designed to ruin your life.

Let it go.


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Aren't you taking some type of hormone?


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>some kind of hormone

Injectible Sweetie Belle extract.


I find no fault with honest advice meant to be helpful, and I truly believe that's what you meant here.

thank you for your words.

not yet. still in the military. there are rules against this.


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Yeah. I try hard not to step on people's toes or tell people what to do with their life, but I've seen this religious stuff completely destroy people and families to the point where I view it as no different than crack cocaine.

People become addicted to their religion and they will hurt family, friends and themselves all in the name of it. It rips apart families, causes pain and anguish for nothing more than an empty promise of a reward once you've wasted your entire life on it.

I mean no offense when I say this, but that book you're reading from has spread more sorrow and hate than any war. I know it can be hard to let something you've spent your life with go, but trust me when I say I have seen first hand the horror that book causes and distancing yourself from it and it's content is the best thing you can do.

I won't tell you how to live your life, I just hate to see another person get pulled into the abyss by those words.


Well this is actually some really interesting perspective. I've seen just the opposite. I've personally seen dozens of people have come to find a sense of comfort and peace from the hardship in their lives in God's word. What sort of sorrow and horror do you mean?


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Well for example my aunt was heavily religious. She was incredibly protective of what my cousins watched and played up until they were 16 they weren't allowed to play anything more violent or suggestive than Tomb Raider. This on it's own wasn't bad but they grew into a life that was extremely sheltered. By the time they became young adults they were lost and confused in a world they were not prepared for. My youngest cousin ended up on prison for a few years. My oldest went into the military and suffered suicidal thoughts.

She also had two daughters. She discovered one of them had rented the movie Scream. When she found out she lost it, packed up all of her daughter's stuff and kicked her out of the house. Over an R rated movie. My other female cousin ended up being a lesbian and my aunt completely stopped talking to her for years.

Eventually my aunt came to her senses and realised she'd been ruining her family because of her obsession with God and made amends with them all.

As far as personal experience, I was talking with someone online once and we were getting along fine, having a pleasant conversation until he found out I was transgender. His response was "We can't be friends anymore, because that is an affront to God."

I've also seen and read countless stories of kids completely abandoned by their parents for being gay, bi or trans just because their parents are super religious.

I was speaking to someone from India recently about coming to terms with being trans. The problem was that his parents were incredibly Christian religious and he was scared to death of his parents finding out.

Tell me this: How horrible does something have to be to cause a child to be deathly afraid of their own parents. Over what? A story in a book? It's absolutely insane.

The only other times children are scared of their parents is of the parents are constantly drunk or strung out on drugs. So tell me what the difference actually is?

God is kind and caring to those that obey. Those that fit in. Those that give up everything to serve him. Do you know what that is? That is tyranny. If you're not willing to be miserable and make everyone around you miserable in his name, you are considered garbage. Worthless. Doomed to a refuge pile known as hell. How can anyone follow a belief that tells them some people are simply awful based on how they feel? What they like? Even if those things hurt absolutely nobody.


If I might interject a bit.


I kind of get where Toybox is coming from, as I have seen relationships and families torn apart by religion ... or religion-like institutions.

I disagree with Toybox's implication that it's because of the content in the book, since, ultimately what is more important of a factor in whether or not it ends up becoming a factor in spreading misery is really in how it is interpreted.

Maybe I am coming at it from a biased perspective, but as an outsider to the Christian faith (formerly an Episcopalian), I see the bible as fundamentally full of contradictions both in terms of rules and in terms of more abstract themes. As I see it, what one gets out of it can simply be a reflection of what they already have with them before they go into interpreting it. This is why I think, ultimately, it doesn't really matter that much what religion one pursues if trying to find some sense of meaning or purpose in life, many of the most affecting ones are those that reflect back to the faithful what they already have within them.

I think it can be destructive when three possible things happen when people go into interpreting it.

1) It can be destructive when treated as if it were a legal document. I have seen nothing more destructive to relationships and families as I have when people treat the letter of religious law as more important than the spirit of it. As I see it, all the contradictions in the letter of the law are an artifact of people in the past attempting to articulate what that spirit even is. The way I see it, it's kind of like getting your priorities all wrong, and being too focused on the details of the law rather than understanding the intention is a recipe for hypocrisy.

2) It can be destructive when treated dogmatically. As I see it, if pride and arrogance are sinful and destructive, what is more arrogant than dogmatism?  The appeal of dogmatism is understandable, in fact much of the need that religion can feel like it is fulfilling is that it's giving answers (or at least a sense of answers) to difficult questions, giving people a sense of purpose and direction in their own lives, especially when they do not feel they could find it themselves and can't come to peace without that sense of purpose. So it's apealling and comforting to think that there exists someone who will always know for you and who is in control and that, it would be better to defer all judgment on that to an entity that will that will provide one with a sense of certainty, and what better way to feel so certain than to be dogmatic?

3) It can be destructive when it becomes the basis of an identity. One of the most common hypocrisies I see in Christians and in Christianity in general is how the one commandment treated as the most important, that is, to love they neighbors as your friends, so often leads to Christians to decide some people just don't count as neighbors. And, well, this is actually rooted in how human social psychology works,  especially around identity formation, we all have a primal need to feel inclusion, but in order for the identity we form to feel meaningful to us, those identities must exclude some people,  which is ultimately the psychological roots of tribalism. So religion, rather than being the answer to the problem of a lack of world peace, can end up only encouraging greater divisions between people by simply replacing one social identity with another.


that sounds more like a flaw with the person. I'm taught to be loving toward my friends, even if they do choose things that are sinful. I'm not to judge them, but love them.

If someone is disowning their children or becoming angry at them over how they feel, they aren't following the doctrine the Bible teaches.

Can you provide some examples in the Bible of when the spirit of the law is more important than the letter?

I fail to see how that second one is destructive.

I don't understand that third one. If you're loving your neighbor, what's the problem?


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>I'm not to judge them, but love them.

Yet you judge yourself for what, exactly? What kind of God would do what he did to you and then just expect you to suffer for your entire life?

Are you less deserving just on a whim?


Ah, but you see, I do not judge myself. God does. And I know that he will judge me sinful, and so I choose not to disobey him.

I do not condemn others for not following the guidelines and rules I am given, but I do follow them myself.


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Okay! How about this:
Try talking to god. If he doesn't respond, then gods not real.
OR it proves god is evil and doesn't want to help you clarify your circumstance.
And if you can talk to god, go see a professional.
I know religion can provide hope when you have faith, but there's gotta be more to it than just religion.


you say that with the presumption that I will fail, because you do not believe it can happen, failing of course, to account for the fact that I do, and I do believe I have.

Your argument is invalid.


Just saying, the whole "what kind of god would..." argument that some of you are making is illogical.  Worship of God isn't necessarily contingent upon one's personal approval of God's will - expressed or implied.


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Sinful for what, exactly? Being born a specific way? Is that fair?


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All hail the all knowing and all powerful god.

Ah forgetit

I believe we are in the matrix now


thoughts are not sinful if no action comes of them


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This thread ended up being more serious than I would have ever imaginated.

I'd talk with you about how my faith have clashed with some situation in the past, but that kind of comparison would be disrespectful to you.

... Don't you have a close enough person in your life whom you would be able to share these feelings with?
I am worried, because the feelings provoked by these "life changing" positions can end up very well or very very bad.

Self-destruction is always stalking, awaiting for a moment of weakness.


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You do realize how the science of being Transgender works, correct? They are not just thoughts. It's actually caused by a misfire of hormones during the second half of pregnancy. It's a physical condition, it's not all in your head.


I do have people I normally talk about these things with, but  I never say no to new opinions as long as the person is at least trying to be constructive. In a council of many there is wisdom. I take in all available information and make an informed decision, and sometimes debate is the method through which information is weighed.

Now, originally this was literally just me crying because I didn't know how to form words, and I really didn't want to. I get pretty emotional at the original onset of a dilemma, which is why I often take so long to actuallly make decisions, to let the emotions cool off. But when I was calm, someone asked if I wanted to talk about it, and for the reasons I've just mentioned, I decided to engage.

If what you have to say is intended to help, and not clearly malicious, I will surely not find disrespect.

Can you provide scientific evidence for that?



I am glad you at least seem to have your feelings under control.

>If what you have to say is intended to help, and not clearly malicious, I will surely not find disrespect.

... I don't think it would help. Actually, I still have these problems.


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Scientific evidence is very new but brain scans of transgender people more closely match those of people of their desired gender



Theres better sources but my search result is clogged with short secondary sources but yes there is a solid physiological foundation.

Im often troubled by especially children saying its because they want to wear the other genders clothes etc which is socially assigned gender role and that can be confusing blah blah plenty of other concerns as well but.  Those people i know who've struggled with dysphoria are plagued with feelings of their body being wrong, depression, etc.  Once they realize/make the decision they feel a lot better.  This is anecdotal n by no means representative of everyone or you, just what those few i know have told me.


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Here's a couple basic resources.

I'll paste the most relevant parts:
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

It's science.


Doesn't the Old Testament also say that wearing cotton/polyester blend shirts and eating pork are verboten?  I thought that Jesus nullified all those silly old rules.  I'd try to provide some citations, but I am phone now.


Well I am interested to know how I would look in a dress after transitioning but that does not affect my ultimate decision. I've always felt like I was female. My mother even fondly remembers a hilarious moment where as a five year old boy I lifted up my shirt and asked "Mommy, when do mine get big like yours?"
A funny memory for her, a bewildering moment for me, as she explained that mine would never get big like that because I was a boy.

thank you

yes, Levitican law was later abolished, that's why not all sources are from the old testament.


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For the record, i know you're going to be gorgeous and elegant in a dress.

Also don't let that religious baggage come between you and God.  If you weren't supposed to end up in a dress He wouldn't have made you the way you are.


Ok, I just read all those quotes, and I see nothing against altering one's body as a medical treatment for gender dysphoria.


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God also appears to be a male according to the OP


Depends what you mean by "male".  I don't think any Abrahamic religion posits that God literally has sperm-producing gonads.


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I'm not debating whether god is male.
I'm just saying OP claims god as male


God is always referred to with male pronouns


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MY EYES!!!!!


I don't get it


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Nah, jk
I suppose God is all the genders...


There is a.differenece between being male and being referred.to with male.pronojns.  Eg, in German, the word "Mädchen" means "girl" but it is grammatically neuter rather than feminine.


They are kawaii :3


Thats probly because until recently male pronouns are all-encompassing.  Son of Man, mankind, chairman etc.


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Sweetie Belle doesn't like religion


>>838099  "he" and "him" are gender neutral when referring to a person of unknown gender


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Exactly, and a chairman is a chairman regardless of gender.

Theres no such thing as a chairperson, unless maybe a person who is a chair but that's furniture fetish so shhh i didn't say nuthin.  Furniture fetish pic!  Straight from the show so it gets through!!

Ponies are for little girls!


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What kind of religion is there in Equestria?  Do the ponies worship Celestia as a living deity?  Will Sweetie Belle be burnt at the stake as a heretic if she refuses?


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Hi there.


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I am in need of hugs please


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Bad night?


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Sorry to hear...


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it's okay. They happen sometimes.

A hurricane comes and tries to tear me away from the world piece by piece, and I need a friend to hold me down, hold me together, and remind me that someone cares.


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I kind of feel you there...

Those storms are no fun.


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friends make them survivable


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They do.

I have a bad habit of trying to weather them on my own though.
it doesn't work all that well

Friends are important.


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very important


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Didn't you begin drawing a while back? Still at it?


I'm a little stuck until I can find a new eraser. I never realized how much I rely on it until I lost it.


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but I did manage to draw this girl


Heh, no, that's how it usually goes I suppose.

Looks nice.
Hope you find a new eraser so you can get unstuck.



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