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 No.562064

File: 1502358001510.png (169.46 KB, 376x400, 47:50, I can come out now.png) ImgOps Google

I know I have been ragging on this a while.

But I caught the line in an article of a convicted pedophile who, after given the opportunity to have psychological guidance instead of jail, was caught molesting kids again and having a lot of CP on his home computer.
Lawyer: "Sending him to jail won't help him."

And, since it is a disussion had before on the nature of punishment: What good is jail time going to do?

If a man gets rejected by his girlfriend and strangles her, sending him to jail or execution has little benefits besides vindictive satisfaction.
Sending him to therapy will likely not change his ways either.

Should we ever come to a point where we just shrug off criminal behaviour since we can't really help it?

 No.562065

Jail time would remove him from the streets he clearly cannot be trusted to be on, without killing him outright. It does him no good, sure, but it does other people a lot of good, and if he can't be helped either way, it's best to think of the majority of people.

 No.562072

File: 1502363646765.png (380.06 KB, 700x870, 70:87, tumblr_noskc43zHl1svir81o1….png) ImgOps Google

We live in a very dark world..

Now to get on the topic, neither therapy or jail will do any good really..
Pedo will always be a pedo, they can't change.
And also sending a pedo to jail pretty much means giving him death sentence, since if other inmates find out that he is pedo, they will torture and kill him.

So imo , death sentence would be more human, since at least it doesn't cause much pain.

But yes, there is no point in shrugging off criminal behavior…as long as humans are alive, there will always be evil deeds and criminals..
Only way to erase all criminal actions is to kill all humans…but ignoring criminal actions is also really stupid.

Since if we shrug it all off, there will be much more crime happening.
Lots of murders, thefts and other things.

I don't support lots of law-based things..since most of them are rather stupid..but, oh well…

 No.562073

>>562064
>psychological guidance instead of jail
Isn't he still being detained at a mental institution or something? That would be the case here at least.
Usually without a set time for release. The case is then brought up every 5 years or so to see if they have improved.


>what good is jail time
Assuming there's some sort of rehabilitation process involved, a reformed person that is ready to take part in society is released.

But if the inmate has no chance of rehabilitation the time in jail has serves to keep them from hurting others while they are in there, it shows that we, as a society, do not tolerate that sort of behaviour and it helps the victim/family/society with a sense of justice.

I don't see any society ever just shrugging off unwanted behaviour of that type. The apathy required for that would be? Well, I can't imagine it?
I could much sooner see people argue that, since rehabilitation is impossible and jails are expensive, execution is a good option.

 No.562075

File: 1502364895456.jpg (273.4 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, Ai.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>562073
It really depends..on pedo case, as much I understand, he was end to shrink for help..but he wasn't held into mental institution, he was free to be wherever he wants as long as he keeps visiting the said shrink.
Pretty much like probation , people on it are allowed to roam free, as long as they keep visiting their probation officer every week or month or they aren't caught in any illegal activities.

In most of jails there is rarely an rehabilitation processes involved .
But even with rehabilitation , it still depends on crime that they did..

No matter what kind of rehabilitation Pedophiles go through, they will still be attracted to Children..(It also highly depends on type of Pedophile we are talking about)

Sense of justice is kinda funny…since Justice is board line with Evil..
Also, again depends on crime committed,

Well, human society is already in chaos, so there is a lot of people who would say that Pedophilia is no crime and that it should be legalized as long as there is no "rape" involved..and there are people who are narrow minded and they will say that anyone who breaks any kind of law that currently exists should be jailed or executed..

For example, if a homeless person with no incomes were to take food from trash container of restaurants, by law that is illegal and they should be charged for theft and end up in same jail like murders, pedophiles, etc.

Now, some people will say "its alright, he did no wrong! … he was hungry and there was food being thrown away,..what kind of human do you need to be to charge this person???"

And others would be "He did petty theft, he should be charged for it and jailed! , If he was so hungry he could've found a job, like I did!"

So , yes..we do live in a very dark world…and everyone has their opinion on "crimes" and how they should be dealt with.  

 No.562076

The two most important functions of criminal punishment are deterrence and removing criminals from society so that they can't reoffend.

But part of the problem is overcriminalization. When the law prohibits smoking pot or drawing lewd pictures of fictional characters who look underage, the real criminals are the legislators. Before criminalizing behavior that doesn't violate the NAP, the legislature should be required to find evidence significant at p < 0.0001 that the outlawed behavior has negative externalities that are great in magnitude.

 No.562200

File: 1502383258280.png (35.21 KB, 452x427, 452:427, Reporting For Duty.png) ImgOps Google

Reminder that law enforcement and prisons are for profit organizations that exist primarily to make money.  If you don't expect the Walmart service desk to be helpful, why would you expect more from the police?

 No.562236

>>562076
>The two most important functions of criminal punishment are deterrence and removing criminals from society so that they can't reoffend
I've always thought that rehabilitation is functionally more important than removing someone from the population if you ask me. If we simply remove them, or place them around other criminals, the problem could be exasperated by creating a culture around criminal activity.

 No.562253

File: 1502385966369.png (41.13 KB, 379x380, 379:380, tophat lurker1.png) ImgOps Google

>>562200
So vote to disband and let crime boys be crime boys?

 No.562260

>>562236
>rehabilitation is functionally more important than removing someone from the population
Consider the case of a convicted child-molester.  Suppose you have two options: (1) lock him up indefinitely with no rehabilitation or (2) rehabilitate him but leave him free to continue to molest children during his rehabilitation.  Which would you choose?

Of course I would agree that ideally we would want to pursue both rehabilitation and protecting society from the dangerous individual, but I believe that protecting society is more important.

 No.562264

>>562200
Civil asset forfeiture and other revenue-generating activies of the police are blatant conflicts of interest. I'm glad that Justice Thomas has come to see civil asset forfeiture as unconstitutional, and I hope the rest of the Supreme Court also adopts this view.

 No.562279

File: 1502388334901.jpg (19.32 KB, 289x296, 289:296, awwww flutter.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>562264
a most disgusting abuse of the law, civil forfeiture.  :c

 No.562302

File: 1502389401089.png (53.51 KB, 392x336, 7:6, This has gone to a horribl….png) ImgOps Google

>>562253

No, we definitely still need to police ourselves, there's a strong and important goal in keeping everyone safe.  Our current institutions just don't share that goal, and at some point you have to stop being surprised when they work against it.

 No.562359

File: 1502396086740.png (373.26 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, wpid-barakamon_02_01.png) ImgOps Google

>>562260
Hmm, that's a tough pickle.

In that specific case I'd have to agree with you, I guess it's not black and white at all.

 No.562865

>>562302
>>562302
How would you suggest reforming the police?

 No.563075

File: 1502461035759.jpg (79.11 KB, 700x600, 7:6, 139304990191.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>562865

For starters, money needs to be removed from the equation.  Fines being a basic level punishment disproportionately affects people based on their income levels, where the lower class may be devestated by a speeding ticket while the upper echelons care so little about the fine it's not a real deterrent.  It also excessively incentivizes police to treat people as a revenue source.

Then I'd move to more harshly penalize police for acting outside of their bounds.  Some of the conduct from officer is disgusting.  They should be stripped of their badge for misconduct and possibly imprisoned, not sent on a paid vacation.  If you murder a civilian for no reason, it's not okay, flatly.  The police in many areas seem to cause more harm than good and they can't be allowed to get away with it.

And on that note, I'd disarm the police force.  At almost no point in an officer's day does he actually need to fire a gun.  Most incidents where a gun would be useful are only responded to after the fact, and there's an alarming misuse of firearms in situations where it was never called for.  You'd have to keep an armory around the station for responded to special situations, but even in areas where civilians are allowed to carry, police officers should not unless responding to one of those situations.

 No.563092

>>563075
1. What about people breaking rules that would not warrant jailtime?
Would you allow people to get a total pass for breaking traffic rules or dumping their trash anywhere?

2. Can't argue much about paid leave.

3. Would you seriously send out unarmed cops on escorts, stake outs, control posts, guard duty or patrol?
Should they be called in on an armed robbery close by, should they appear on scene without any weapon?

 No.563142

File: 1502477890641.png (202.85 KB, 639x771, 213:257, EbonTopaz_JitterbugArt03.png) ImgOps Google

>>563075

I can't say much about the fines other countries, but here in the Netherlands fines already depend on your income level. It should be important that any fine should never just be a slap on the wrist for anybody though, not just for the wealthy or the poor. It should be pretty impactful for both parties, so they can learn from it.

As for police brutality, it really happens a lot less than the media is trying to display. I agree that officers who violate their own laws should be penalized harshly, but the idea that a majority or even just a large part of the police force is corrupt is just plain false.

As for disarming the police force, definitely not. An officer that isn't allowed to carry a gun is basically just a random citizen with a stick. There are incidents out there every single day that officers are forced to discharge their weapons, like during robberies, kidnappings, or violent assaults. The police cannot effectively make a difference in these cases if they do not carry guns. It is that simple. Again, the whole idea of "disarming the police" is only something that exists to begin with because of the falsified information spread by the media.

Yes, corrupt police officers exist. But the truth of the matter is that they are the extreme minority. If they were the majority, or even just a large part of the police force, then our first world countries would look a lot more like Mexico or South Africa. Places where there actually are a lot of corrupt police officers do not become first world countries.

 No.563174

To be fair, the great stories about people getting shot or abused by police officers does not often seem to be a European thing.

 No.563215

File: 1502484742900.png (30.99 KB, 323x292, 323:292, This is going to require a….png) ImgOps Google

>>563092

If it didn't warrant jail time or the revocation of other rights, it doesn't deserve to be a law.  And all those situations you listed are…not what cops do, I'm pretty sure.  If they are, then they'd all be stuff you'd be able to prepare for ahead of time and arm yourself if necessary.

>>563142

It's not about "corrupt" officers, really.  I'm convinced the foundation of law enforcement in America lies somewhere other than "to serve and protect".  Kidnappings, robberies, that jazz?  The police aren't even there, man.  That's stuff that gets reported after the fact.  If anyone stops those things at all, it's someone who was already on scene, armed or otherwise.  Cops' jobs are a lot more boring than the TV makes them look, but I don't have to look at the news for police brutality.  Some of that is literally down the street from me, and I don't want to be the next victim.

 No.563216

File: 1502485081981.jpg (8.46 KB, 216x234, 12:13, ah.jpg) ImgOps Exif Google

>>563215
Not sure about America, but my dad spent his carreer in the police force here.

So, either he's been a lying asshole or they're pretty much involved in those things.

 No.563217

File: 1502486920024.png (32.26 KB, 539x593, 539:593, The Thinker.png) ImgOps Google

>>563216

I'm gonna guess that's a local thing, and really, I don't have much to say about the police force of other countries, or even other states in some cases.  I can only reliably tell people what happens right next to me and how I think it could improve.

 No.563218

>>563092
>Would you allow people to get a total pass for breaking traffic rules or dumping their trash anywhere?
That could be dealt with by sentencing to N hours of community service, where N is chosen to represent how long a typical employee would need to work to earn enough money to pay the current fine.

 No.563223

Still depressing?

 No.563630

File: 1502519688446.png (181.7 KB, 379x255, 379:255, pinkie G3 explain.png) ImgOps Google

>>563223
That's my secret, Hißpa, I'm always depressing.

 No.563659

>>563630

Huh?

You don't seem depressing…

 No.563687

>>563659
People who meet me get depressed.

 No.563752

>>563687

Hm?
Really?


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