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It's no wonder they cast Samuel L. Jackson to play Mace Windu. He was one of the most bad-ass mothefuckers to ever sit on the Jedi Council. You wanna know how much of a bad-ass Mace Windu was? Well sit back because I'm about to drop some deep Star Wars lore on your asses.

You see before Mace Windu there was only six styles of lightsaber combat. But Mace Windu said "fuck that" and straight up invented a seventh style. A style that only he could master because it was so aggressive, one is tempted by the dark side just by using it.

And that my friends, is why Mace Windu's lightsaber says "bad motherfucker" on it.


One of my favorite Jedi.
Overcame an entire droid army by his own.


You mean this?



Like I said. Bad ass.



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Maybe we should get a movie about him instead of the Skywalkers.


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I liked the comics about him more than his movie portrayal.


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Can't that be said for most of the Star Wars universe?  Personally I'd say the movies are one of the worst parts of the franchise.


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i did like mace windu, but looking back, the only Jedi i really like is probably Obi Wan Kenobi


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He was pretty interesting, but have you considered the possibility that they wrote all that after he took the role, and not before?


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>invented his own fighting system
>is defeated easily

Reminds me of Joe Son who got crushed in UFC-4 by unanswered groin punches, oddly similar to falling out a window during a fight in that neither are all that bad-ass imo.


He wasn't defeated easily!

He was killed by one of the most powerful Sith lords ever to exist. One who killed the three other Jedi Mace brought with him quickly. And remember, he WON his fight against Palpatine. He had him on the ground begging for his life. Mace was only killed because he hesitated in finishing Palpatine off and because Anakin betrayed him and disarmed him.


Obi-Wan is cool, but he had his flaws. He should have seen the darkness within Anakin. Like, everyone else did!

I'm not sure how much lore is set out from the start, but you might be right.

A movie about the Max Rebo Band would be better than another movie about the Skywalkers at this point.


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i think the opposite is true... others should have seen the light in Anakin, instead of focusing so much and so exclusively on his darkness


That might have been a good idea riiiight up the the point where he murdered children.


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by then, it was far, far too late


Well, the other Jedi understood it was dangerous to train Anakin because of his inner darkness that first manifested as his intense fear of loss. But Obi-Wan blindly chose to train him anyway.


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And then he fell out a window, and died.

That never would have happened to Batman!

Seems like the raw deal they gave Anakin after he fucking rescued them and signed on kinda started that darkness.  Those self-fulfilling prophecies and whatnot.

They shouldn't have burned him, no.


Batman can glide with his cape, so the fall wouldn't have killed him. Losing the arm might have, though.

Which "raw deal"? The rescued Anakin from literal slavery, gave him a home and taught him to understand his gifts.


Respirator Batsuit might not be up to the technology requirements, no.

But srsly as a child slave he laid it all on the line to help them then when he idolized them and joined their order, they refused to allow him to bring his mom out of slavery.  Which led to the genocide that paved the way for the child murdering you mentioned.

Add to that all the self-righteous hypocrisy while they tried to cover-up the "darkness in their vision" threat and did everything they could think of to piss off and spurn the impressionable angry manchild setting him up for Palpatine's influence.  After that point yeah i agree with you, he went far beyond any sort of excuse for his behavior.

*shrug.  Sup.  Hope yr ok.


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Oops careless of me; i forgot your mouse.


I hate mice.

Yeah, they could have handled things better, no doubt. Not freeing Anakin's mom was a big one. But like, they wanted to teach him to let go of that which he feared to lose. Attachment was forbidden.


I think attachment is forbidden isnt really applied in the spirit of whatever wisdom that was from.  Excuses to behave the opposite.

Pharises.  Etc.  Not everyone gets to grow up in scholarly study of wisdom, some people just react to their environment.

Tbh they pushed his actions far beyond believability, as far as im concerned.  Only the "driven insane" villain trope allows it to even exist.  Took away Vader's masculinity?  Like Han giving away free shots at himself at the cantina in revisions.

Maybe you like this mouse better.


Turns out George Lucas wasn't the worst thing that could happen to Star Wars.


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Dam, that's true.


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You don't talk much unless it's to be a jerk, huh?


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Quick to insult others and refer to something not pertaining to the thread subject I see.


It was an insult?


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mari su


I don't know what that means.


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Say it out loud.


Is it served with sushi?


If they're trying to say that Mace Windu is a Mary Sue then they are using that phrase incorrectly. It doesn't just mean that a character is powerful, but also that the character is perfect and lacks any flaws.

It's about making a well-rounded character regardless of how powerful or strong they are. Plus it's established that Jedi who make it to the Jedi Council are among the most powerful Jedis that exist. It would be silly to criticize Mace Windu for being powerful when that's the reason he's on the council.


Power in place of wisdom?

Apt, and applicable to current reality.  Funny how fiction kinda isn't entirely.


D...do you wanna talk about Star Wars... or...?

I'm having a little trouble following you lately.


I thought we were talking about the jedi council.  I compared it to reality.  

>want to talk about star wars
not in particular.  Simpsons ballet, now theres a topic.


This looks like a post season 9 episode, and therefore it is crap.

We can talk about some older episodes, though.


I was looking for the clip where Bart tries to "use the ballet" to leap a ravine and ends up in a broken heap at the bottom and Nelson says "as long as he's hurt".

But i couldn't find it.  :c


Haha, I know that scene.

You can be a fairy or a queen. It's wide open.


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I think it was the window Windu fell out of that was wide open.

aaaaaaaaaaand we're back on topic

*edit:  or a duck.  You can also be a duck.


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So. One thing that bothered me in the prequels is how active the Jedi seem in the day to day functions of the government. The main trilogy seemed to imply that it was a cloistered order removed from the day to day activity of the world, and indeed most of the lore does, but then in the prequel they're carrying out arrests, advising the highest echelons of government, performing negotiations and diplomatic duties, and taking on proactive unilateral actions on the behalf of the government. Indeed, the debate going on in the Jedi Council is that they should be doing more to control and protect the Republic. Normally I'd say, "Who cares? It is fiction, a space wizard is shooting lightning from his fingers at bear children." I never really cared for the trend of waving nit-picks around as failures. Rather I'll consider a couple other typical nit picks and then consider them in context of each other as if they were related.

Popular support. Whatever their agenda, at least early on the Empire does not seem to rule through a reign of terror. There is certainly a shadow war going on that uses terror, and things instantly become a reign of terror with the use of the death star, but Luke seems to regard the Empire as entirely legitimate at the beginning of the story and considers joining the military as a way out of his boring life. As a particularly bizarre quirk, most of the people cheering at the demise of the Galactic Republic are senators who have now lost a lot of power and influence. At some level people seem to genuinely believe in the goals of the Empire, or at least tolerate them.

Second is kind of a meme. That one guy who mocks Vader's religion to his face. There is a surprising amount of skepticism about the Jedi considering that a generation before they were literally doing magic in the senate. But there is another way to look at it: as antipathy rather than skepticism, not just towards the Jedi but towards their beliefs. By an accident of a theme that has since been lost this antipathy is limited to the Imperial side.

So where can we take this?

We have a highly secretive supposedly monastic order that is deploying "monks" that seem to behave more like super-soldier killteams to enforce the power and ambitions of a galactic government that they also seem to have incredible influence over. A strongman in a coup dissolves this order forcibly along with the government that they enforce, to applause and adulation. A generation later government officials in the revolutionary government feel at ease openly mocking adherents of the monastic tenants to their faces regardless of loyalties or status.

The Jedi themselves present the rise of the Empire as overthrowing a democracy, but I wonder if it might be more appropriate to think that many people saw the Empire as overthrowing a Theocracy.


> Luke seems to regard the Empire as entirely legitimate at the beginning of the story and considers joining the military as a way out of his boring life.

It's the second thing. When asked to join the Rebellion by Obi-Wan Luke says " Look, I can't get involved. I've got work to do. It's not that I like the Empire; I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now... It's all such a long way from here."

>But there is another way to look at it: as antipathy rather than skepticism.

I never read that guy's response as skepticism. He's familiar with Vader and what he can do, and he's old enough to have been alive when the Jedi were around. (According to the Star Wars Wiki his name was Admiral Motti and he was a "teenager" during the Clone Wars).  I can read his attitude as antipathy. Han Solo is the only person who shows genuine skepticism of the Force, and he was 13 or 14 when the Jedi Order fell.  

Anyway, in regards to the Republic being a theocracy, I don't think that's quite accurate. I believe the Jedi had to insert themselves more and more into politics because of their role as peace-keepers. I believe the Clone Wars is a special case of the Jedi being involved in politics more closely than they had been before. Especially considering the fact that when Obi-Wan defeated Darth Maul, the Jedi knew that that a powerful darkside user was somehow involved in this conflict, it makes sense they would monitor and involve themselves in it closely.


>the Jedi had to insert themselves more and more into politics because of their role as peace-keepers

That's certainly the Jedi angle, of course. And considering that Sith had actively infiltrated the government they were right to. But I'm trying to look at it from an outsider perspective. There are two things people know about the Jedi. They are a cloistered religious order of monks who have isolated themselves from worldly possessions and temptations for a life of isolated religious contemplation, and that a Jedi hit team just tried to kill the President.


thats not accurate though

by the time of the third movie the Jedi have been involved in hundreds of different events in the war. by that time they would be fully recognized by the vast majority of the Republic as an active aspect of the war/government and it wouldnt just be "this random group tried to kill the Chancellor". its more like it was seen as a military coup rather than an unknown group.

also the whole involvement of the Jedi in the war is actually an argument being had WITHIN the Jedi order itself with some Council members saying they should pull back from their involvement while others want them to be MORE involved.


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Then the non-cloistered non-monastic secretive religious order was overtly influencing the government in day-to-day affairs. The window dressing doesn't really change the painting.

It's all moot though. This is all a little exercise in radically over-interpreting things that are only accidentally in the source material and have no relationship whatsoever to each other. Subtlety isn't really what Star Wars is known for.


Yes and like I literally just said, that was actually an issue adressed in Star Wars canon. Youre not bringing up some controversial new point, its literally something discussed in the material itself.


Shit, I get it. Nevermind the posts.


Dont mind them, they can be a little rough around the edges.

But it is interesting how quickly people seem to forget about the Jedi Order.


I found this video pretty interesting. This channel applies psychology to fictional characters.

Apparently he thinks that Anakin and Kylo Ren have Borderline Personality Disorder.

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