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For those who don’t know Steam Twist was banned almost two years ago for what can only be described as perceived transphobia. Despite having the best of intentions at this time Steam knew virtually nothing about transgenderism, which lead him to misgender and otherwise a certain user on many occasions. Steam by his own word, and the word of others, tried his best to be as sensitive and understanding in regards to this topic and said poster as possible, but because of his general ignorance surrounding the topic, and the fact that he has Aspergers (a condition that I also have) Steam was repeatedly misunderstood and assumed to be transphobic by this community.
My question is wither or not ignorance and lack of social understanding can be considered as bigotry? I don’t think so. In fact I think this community was in the wrong for judging Steam so negatively, despite the fact that everyone knows about his condition. It seems to me that most members of this community were either eager to jump on the offence bandwagon without fully analysing the situation from everyone’s point of view, or they simply had a personal problem with Steam Twist. But... I also understand how sensitive the topic of transgenderism can be for both trans and non-trans people alike, so I can’t hold too much of a grudge against this community.
The community should have tried to empathise with Steam to a greater extent, before explaining the complex workings of transgenderism to him, and why what he said was wrong and not welcome in this community. Bullying and kicking him from the site could have caused significant resentment on Steams side, which may have lead to him becoming genuinely transphobic, but luckily Steam took this a learning curb and seems to have became a lot more informed on trans issues, as well as having at least one transgender friend.
In conclusion, Steam Twist has learned his lesson and genuinely resents what he did, which lead him to become more informed on transgender issues. While the user in question has left the site, I’m well aware of the fact that this community still has a substantial transgender population, but I think considering that Steam has become more than educated on this topic that there is no chance that he’ll offend anyone.
Nearly two years is a long time to be banned over a few ignorant, but offensive comments. I think it’s time to give Steam another chance.
Past thread for context,http://archive.li/8lfa9
If anyone has any further concerns I’d like to state that I’ll personally be looking out for Steam, and correcting him privately whenever I think he’s crossing a line. I think someone that understands him and is willing to hear his side of the story, while still telling him where he went wrong will do a great deal of help for him.
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My opinion has not changed.
I do not want Steam Twist back.
That is all I will say on the matter.
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Oh look, another one of these.
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While he has improved a little bit, I think he still have a long way to go before he is fit to rejoin this site. In particular, he needs to (1) stop throwing temper tantrums when people don't understand what he is trying to say, and (2) start living in reality instead of his "make pretend" fantasy world, and (3) stop blaming America and TV for all of his problems.
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It’s rather unfortunate that no one is willing to give him another chance after so long, but at the end of the day this is the communities choice.>>4652
First of all, I understand that you don’t like me and I respect your reasons for doing so. You don’t need to tell me in every other post I make.
Also, respect isn’t an absolute. You can respect some things while disrespecting others. Although I’ve never said to you or anyone that I disrespect anyone or any group, so I don’t know where you would get that notion from. (Not wanting someone in your house does not necessarily mean that you disrespect them.)
>>4652>Are we voting?
I don't think we are voting per se. The mod team might take into account how users on the site feel when they make their decision. Evidence and arguments for and against the proposal would likely carry more weight than just a "yes" or "no".>>4652>P.S. OP is has no room to talk about tolerance for other people.
Please try to leave out the ad hominems
. Mint's proposal should be judged on its own merits, regardless of any faults that Mint has as a person.>>4653
Steam Twist was just given another chance on Ponychan /ef/ for a few months, and he failed. Why do you think he would have more success here?
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>>4654>Why do you think he would have more success here?
Because the rules on this site are far harsher, especially regarding bullying and harassment.
Steams biggest problem on ponychan was that he was harassed and made fun of on near constant basis. In fact some users on the site seemed to only show up when Steam was around, so they could bait and then laugh at him.
I think the fact that no one can bully him here will greatly help, both himself and other people’s relationships with him.
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And what happens when he can't ground himself in reality, or communicate with us properly?
Has he gotten any help outside the site with that?
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>>4655>Because the rules on this site are far harsher, especially regarding bullying and harassment
Steam dished that out too. He frequently called others stupid when they were confused by something he posted that made sense only to him.
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mint do not take part of this because you don't really understand the situation he put himself in and it will only drag you down along with him.
By the way it wasn't the trans situation that got him kicked off it was him refusing each time to stop when told so.
the trans situation was the final straw That broke the camel back.
He has been given 6 chances already here, with constant explanation and for some reason he can't really stick with the basics of the explanation.
He really needs actual professional help.
>>4653>(Not wanting someone in your house does not necessarily mean that you disrespect them.)
Then why don't you want them in "your" house? This isn't the place to debate this, but those are two completely contradictory opinions to hold. And I have no interest in trying to explain to you why the sky isn't green. You're just wrong. >>4654
Steam's not ready to come back. He still holds all the views and still participates in all the actions that got him banned last time. Letting him back in now would simply burn up any shreds of good will that still remain for him, mine included.
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>>4659>This isn't the place to debate this, but [proceeds to debate it anyway]
🤔Next time, just make a >>>/townhall/ thread and link it or contact Mint privately on Discord or something.
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>>4656>And what happens when he can't ground himself in reality, or communicate with us properly?
I honestly don’t know. I just feel really bad for the guy, and I was hoping that this site may have given at least something.
I don’t think socially isolating him is the solution. But it’s unfortunately what seems to happen whenever he tries to integrate himself into any community. I fully understand that Steam is his biggest enemy, but I still can’t help but feel sorry for him whenever someone makes fun of the guy.>Has he gotten any help outside the site with that?
I don’t know. You’d have to ask him that.>>4657
Yeah, that’s why I said that I’d look out for him and correct him whenever he does anything wrong.>>4658>it will only drag you down along with him.
My reputation isn’t exactly great anyway, so I’m willing to sacrifice some of it, if I can help Steam in the process.
Everyone here has valid concerns, my problem is that I just feel bad for the guy and don’t want to think that he can’t change or fit into a community, if given a fair chance and some guidance.>>4659
Someone can be both homophobic and non-racist. Just because I’m “intolerant” of some things doesn’t mean I’m not tolerant of others.
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>>4663>You’d have to ask him that.
In case anyone does want to talk to Steam Twist, he can be found here: https://www.ponychan.net/tartarus/res/8530.html
>>4663>Someone can be both homophobic and non-racist
Granted. But that's being hypocritical and people should strive not to be so.
In either case, I don't think you know Steam Twist very well. He has a history on this site and the way you characterized it does not paint a complete picture of his behavior or past. Behavior which largely has not changed.
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> for what can only be described as perceived transphobia
Incorrect. That was one transgression on top of many.
>and the fact that he has Aspergers
That's not an excuse, nor is it relevant. Never has been, never will be.
>I think this community was in the wrong for judging Steam so negatively
Good for you. You weren't here for many of his drama fueled threads and have zero context of the people he's offended and hurt.
>The community should have tried to empathise with Steam to a greater extent
He should've tried to integrate to our society without blaming all his problems on us. Why should the many cater to one person.
>Steam Twist has learned his lesson and genuinely resents what he did
He hasn't. /ef/ was proving ground enough for that. He literally went off on the only person that gave him his 842nd chance, Toybox, and expected to be welcomed back for the 843rd time. He only resents what he did because he's no longer welcome. He has no actual sympathy for his actions, just how we reacted to him.
Moony said it clearly in the last appeal thread, any appeal should be done in private and not made in Canterlot. It's not up to us, it's up to the Moderator staff here. These websites are nothing but detrimental to him. He does not have a job, and he is no longer seeing a psychologist. Being allowed back on here would no doubt distract him further from actually helping him get his real life back together. He needs to get a job. He needs to see a psychologist. And he needs to not let a single website take so much precedent over his life.
You're a good kid Mint, but leave the subject be. This is not helping him, us, or yourself at all.
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>>4665>that's being hypocritical and people should strive not to be so.
I think you have a very simplistic way of looking at this. Very few people are intolerant for intolerances sake, very few people hate purely for the sake of hatred. People usually have their own justifications for these things, and wither or not said justifications are right or wrong, complex or simple is completely irrelevant to the fact that to them these justifications are important, and logical.
For example someone may justify their homophobia because of a religion they follow, while holding no racial views because they have no justification to do so. This person isn’t hypocritical for being intolerant towards one group and tolerant towards another, because their internal logic is consistent, regardless of their false premises. There is no contradiction in their world view, no matter how false it may be.
If you’re goal is to be tolerant, and you’re fine while Black people while hating gays, then you are a hypocrite.
Hypocrisy has more to do with someone’s premises and justifications for those premises than the thing itself. It has little to do with the thing itself, but rather how you see said thing.>>4666>These websites are nothing but detrimental to him.
I understand that, but he has literally nothing else, and as I’ve said before, I don’t think socially isolating him is a good solution.
Maybe sites like this aren’t the place for him, but I do think that he needs somewhere to go, someone to talk to, just to make sure that he doesn’t become too isolated, and therefore his actions unchecked. I don’t know where he can go at this point, but I do know that completely isolating and shutting him off for the world will only make him worse.
I’ve suggested that he try Anonymous communities, and I’m also free to talk to him on Discord at just about any time, but I don’t think that’s enough. He needs some community, or at least a few friends to stop him from slipping away into complete social isolation.
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>>4668>but he has literally nothing else
He has all the rest of the internet he didn't mess up with.>I don’t think socially isolating him is a good solution.
If only there were a place outside of the internet, where he can meet up with people and do social activities. Possibly a type of kickboxing class. And while he's outside he can talk with one of the 60 million people in real life. You can't claim we're isolating him when he's free to go literally anywhere else.>Maybe sites like this aren’t the place for him
No shit.> I don’t know where he can go at this point
If only there were something he can do outside the internet involving real life. If only.
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He's literally in a social club.
So it's very likely.
So there's no reason for us to cater to him.
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Really? I wasn’t aware of that.
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He takes Muay Thai at a place he dox'd himself on. You're putting a lot of faith in someone you hardly know.
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Good. It’s nice to know that he has some IRL people he can meet up with.
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This seems less helpful and more stirring the pot across sites but that's my personal take on it...
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I didn't inquire, and it's not relevant.
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>>4676>I heard a rumor he injured himself with chopsticks though.
That was just a joke.
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>>4663>my problem is that I just feel bad for the guy and don’t want to think that he can’t change or fit into a community, if given a fair chance and some guidance.
That's great in all but you are only damaging him further Because the problem with steam is sites like this can't really help him in his current state, Especially with the fact he's mostly doing the bear minamal amount of effort to not get banned and not really improve himself.
Socializing by text is just not good enough for him.
He honestly needs outside influence because those leave the most impact.
Ontop of that he was already been given constant chances.
He used them all up.
If you really want to help him. Talk to him and try to teach him.
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>>4680>If you really want to help him. Talk to him and try to teach him.
I added him on Discord, and I intend to do just that.
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Just in case there is any serious consideration being put into this by the mod staff here, I thought maybe I should give my 2 cents.
I don't hate steam, but I have to agree with pretty much everything tracer has said. I didn't know him much before he returned to ponychan, but I did have to deal with him when he did.
I have to say I think it's in his best interest to stay barred from both these sites, because as tracer said, he needs to focus on his real life rather than losing himself in his fantasies and spending so much time causing himself undo angst on the internet; It just feeds the worst of him to do so.
The fact of the matter is his being allowed to post on these sites would be a disruption to the communities, and to his own life, that I don't think would benefit anyone involved.
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Well then. Good luck.
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In case anyone on the site staff is seriously considering letting Steam Twist back, here is some evidence that he still has lots of anger problems in regards to people accidentally misinterpreting him.
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i like Steam Twist... and do feel sorry for him. i think he has learned a lesson, though perhaps not the intended one...
That said, it is my opinion, and the opinion of the staff, that Steam Twist is not ready to return to the site. While it can be agreed that Steam Twist has learned from his experiences, his behavior is still problematic, and has continued to be so. The staff has every reason to believe that rule breaking behavior will continue if he returns to the site.
i admire the feeling of wanting to help out others. i would personally love it if Ponyville could be a sanctuary for every single person out there, who has not had a place to call home.
But the staff must make hard decisions sometimes: we cannot throw out many people from their sanctuary, for one person who treats our site more like a personal playground than anything else.
Steam Twist's appeal is denied at this time. i know it's not easy to hear. It isn't easy to say. But it is, ultimately, what is best for the community.