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In my recent thread, "a lost pony" came into the thread and posted >>>/pony/922170. This appeared in my opinion to be an attempt to try to escalate and/or instigate an argument. Moony warned him for this behavior later on in >>>/pony/922398.

I told lp that I would be ignoring him to avoid escalation in >>>/pony/922225. I did not respond to him in that thread after that point. But lp kept pushing the issue in >>>/pony/922226, >>>/pony/922302, >>>/pony/922323, and >>>/pony/922350. I see this as more attempts to try to escalate and/or start an argument.

But beyond just this thread, I've seen lp's interactions with me grow more and more hostile and accusatory over time, despite multiple efforts to be be civil with him and come to some sort of mutual understanding. At this point I feel like if this behavior doesn't stop, then he will be violating the site's rules on harassment. In fact, he has JUST tried to instigate me into posting in >>3438 and was warned again.


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i invite our userbase, and our staff, to weigh in.

i think Manley stating he would be ignoring lp is de-escalation, and lp disregarding that is escalation.

we want to avoid escalation. and i don't it needs to be a big deal, we just want to try to figure out why every Manley + LP thread ends up in a site destroying fight, and multiple reports

LP, i invite you to give your perspective too.


Personally, I think the both of you need to chill a bit.
Manley got his ban, and, that ought to've been the end of it.
No need to hold past troubles aloft, unless they directly come up.

I think LP got a tad triggered from the immediate reaction of >>>/pony/922137
"What are you doing?", which did seem to come out of nowhere.
I think he definitely went too far, though. No need to escalate it. I would've just ignored it as a bit of a passive-aggressive comment, personally.


I think "what are you doing" was justified, seeing how he had taken a screencap of me and reposted it. I wanted to know... what he was doing. Like what that action was trying to accomplish. It was him who escalated things with  >>>/pony/922170, the post he got warned for.


I thought that was obvious. He was using your excellent counter to Rose.
Near as I saw, he was defending you, in that case.

I think it's true that he escalated beyond what was necessary, though. But, I think the reason was the immediate reaction to his presence.


Well, I think it's clear from  >>>/pony/922170 he was trying to be hostile, since he responded "the same as you."


He's taking the stance that he hasn't done anything. That he's getting snapped at for engaging in a discussion with others.


>he responded "the same as you."
No, he didn't.  I just went to that page and did Ctrl+F and there are no occurrences of that string.


Yeah, but I didn't really "snap" at him.

But even if he took that initial post as aggressive, when I told him I would be ignoring him to avoid escalating, his string of attempts to instigate still stand.


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You didn't stop engaging immediately. You pushed the conversation further on, and only stated otherwise well after LP wasn't around, to an anon who seemed to be critiquing the response given.
I'll agree LP escalated things, my main contention is that I don't really think he's at fault for replying to things said when he wasn't around.

What I'm mostly getting at here is, I don't think this is harassment.
I think this is a pair of people who've had a lot of fights, and get at it very easily now as a result. And, sure, in this case, LP's the one escalating it. That's not always the case, but, here, by all means.

It'd be better to forgive and forget. Or just ignore eachother. Either way.


it's becoming a problem. He is always escalating things and is growing more and more openly hostile.


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Well I think you are part of the problem too.  Like with the thing about lizards and empathy.   LP went and found some sources, and you just ignored them.


Because I asked him to do that in the thread the night before, but he decided not to give me any which made me angry. So I decided to ignore him at this point.


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Well now you have sources [1, 2, 3].  So in any future discussions about lizards and empathy, I hope you will keep them in mind.

Also, the glib way you brushed off your ban ("Since this website seems determined to keep me off of it on Pokemon Day") -- you should really acknowledge that your insulting language was inappropriate and apologize to LP.  Or if you don't understand why what you did was bad, you should seek clarification here.

[1] https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/brain-the-inside-story/your-emotional-brain/beyond-our-lizard-brain

[2] https://massivesci.com/articles/lizard-people-reptile-brain-human/

[3] http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.html


I said "the website", not LP specifically.


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>i think Manley stating he would be ignoring lp is de-escalation, and lp disregarding that is escalation.

You might think that if he hadn't taunted me right from the OP and then repeatedly demanding i supply him proof that he was wrong about that i never said he was wrong about.  The reason he got himself rightfully banned.

I am the one who de-escalated when after trying to make peace with him he continued to scream at me so i told him i would leave him alone.

I only returned to the thread an hour later because after i said i'd take a break he kept spreading his lies that i had accused him of being wrong and demanding i supply him proof.

So i pulled up some basic easy to read educational links and posted them.  Links that show exactly what i'd told him on several previous occasions when i'd had to hear his negative bullshit that reptiles are incapable of feeling empathy because their brains are mush.

There is no reason why i should give him another lecture about how brains work, upon demand, when i already have.  His long and constant defaming of me claiming a lost pony had called him wrong, when i didn't, IS FUCKING ESCALATION MOONY.

Then, when i provided him what he DEMANDED OF ME that proves he's fulla fucking shit about lizards being incapable of empathy, THAT IS WHEN HE DECIDED TO IGNORE ME.

That is NOT de-escalation, Moony.  That is called pouting.  He's wrong, and for three whole days has been whiiiining that i owe him an education about lizard brains and so i GAVE HIM WHAT HE HAD BEEN DEMANDING but instead of reading it and saying hey thanks lost pony, thats good information i guess lizards can feel empathy, as any civil person would, he POUTS.

No, Moons, that is not de-escalation.  And Wizard's ruling the other day was that Manley was out of line, not that i baited him.  Yet in todays thread right from the start he accused me of deliberately provoking him.

Even Artee whined in a post he deleted about people trying to get others banned.

This might be hard to understand but i will make it as clear as i can:  I DO NOT WANT TO GET ANYONE IN TROUBLE.

I want people to be fucking civil to each other.  Guess what, im not hostile to Manley.  I call you out personally, Moony, for unfairly stating that every conversation between Manley and I becomes a shit show because every conversation Manley has, Period, becomez a shit show.

It's simply bullshit.  Its funny, the evidence for this is that even Jade couldnt handle his fucking shit.  And in the thread she posted just recently, Wizard posted a screen shot of the last time she wanted to leave, in 2016, long before a lost pony was ever here, and the person at the center of THAT debacle?  That's right, its Manley.  Shows it right in the screen shot.

Am i upset with anybody?  No.  Except myself for wanting to be here.  Manley is fine.  Youre fine.  You want him, keep him.  Something just aint right with that boy.

You give me a lot of shit for saying i dont want to be here sometimes, as though its a threat.  Like anyone but you would miss me.  So i'll be real clear:  im not leaving.  You're stuck with me, Moons, on this miserable shithole of a refugee camp, until you permaban me like Steam Twist.  But.  Lots of other people you value dont want to be here much pf the time too, and you know who they are.  The question you have to ask yourself is if you want to fix the problem, or continue to coddle him.

The problem is, and has always been that absolute negative nelly, mean, fingerpointing and false-accusing rotten human being who posted this thread.

Don't ban him, confront him on his rotten behavior.  Lecture him like you lecture me and just lectured Rose today.  But don't but in to his delusion.  Your rewarding his negative behavior is why we all end up here, week after week, going back long before i was ever here.  Hanging this shit on me is just counterproductive, and to be direct and frank, entirely stupid.

I apologize for my tone and i promise i do not intend to hurt you Moons, though i know this message most certainly has.  But sometimes what needs to be said hurts.

Feel free to ban me, or whatever.  But everything i claim is consistent with the facts on /pony/ right now and as you pointed out, this is not court.  Its not my job to prepare you an indexed memorandum with evidence exhibits.  Over the last days, each of the indexed support i gave you was dead-on and convinced you and trust me, all you need is right in front of you.

Good night.  


But it still seems like you're not accepting responsibility for your own actions of insulting LP in that thread.  You earned your ban, and you should apologize to LP for insinuating that he is an 'asshole'.


I don't agree that I was calling him an asshole, something I discussed in that thread. But the mods decided to take it that way and there's nothing I can do about that. All I can do is focus on this issue moving forward.


>I don't agree that I was calling him an asshole
You were insinuating it.


Whether or not you were directly calling him an asshole, surely you can grasp why it's very insulting, right?

Or do you think it would be acceptable for me to say "If you don't see how that's insulting, I'll have to assume that's just you being an asshole"?


>he hadn't taunted me right from the OP
Didn't do that.

>then repeatedly demanding i supply him proof that he was wrong
Actually, I did that yesterday.

Because you had your chance to give that to me the night before and refused.

>Yet in todays thread right from the start he accused me of deliberately provoking him.

Never said that. The most I said was that it was possible you were.


>His long and constant defaming of me claiming a lost pony had called him wrong
Well, what you said logically entailed that Manley is wrong.  And there's nothing with that; Manley was wrong.


How? I said I would be forced to think it, not that he actually was. This is a dumb argument, we are supposed to be talking about lp's repeated attempts to escalate here. That issue is in the past, I served my time for it.


Well if you still don't understand why you were banned, you'd do well to try to figure it out, so that you don't engage in rule-breaking behavior yet again in the future.  And this thread is as good as any to seek that clarification.


So, if you do something I don't like, I can say "I'll be forced to assume that's you being an ass", right?
It'd be the same thing, right?


>How? I said I would be forced to think it, not that he actually was.
Well, why would you think it?  That leads to the insinuation.


I've already explained that. He said I was wrong, and before the escalation even began, I asked him to explain how I was wrong. He refused. Which made me angry. I shouldn't have gotten angry, but at the same time, he still said I was wrong without backing it up, and when I asked him to clarify he refused to do so. There's two options there then. Either 1) He was doing that on purpose to make me angry or 2) He couldn't actually back it up. And we know 2 is wrong because he actually tried to do so today. Meaning 1 is the only option. I reacted poorly, but it was because of his actions.

Only if you ask me why I'm doing something and I refuse to tell you.


Ah, I see, so basically it's only okay if you do it.


How did you get that from what I said?


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>Like anyone but you would miss me.
I would miss you if you left.


Because you literally just said that it's only okay if you're doing something you don't like.
Meaning that it's okay in your subjective view based on your own justification, not other people's justifications.
It's something you'd think is wrong, if I said for a different reason.

Basically, a lack of principled reasoning, implying it is built off of personal emotion.


I said if I were doing the same thing lp did, then yeah, you could assume I was being an asshole. I wouldn't blame you for that.


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>. There's two options there then. Either 1) He was doing that on purpose to make me angry or 2) He couldn't actually back it up
Or maybe he was just lazy and didn't want to do your homework for you?


What if I had a different set of reasoning?
For example, not understanding why saying something incredibly insulting is insulting.


Then he shouldn't have made the claim I was wrong if he couldn't back it up. The burden of proof is on him. If he can't prove that I'm wrong, then he can't say that I am. Because I may not be.

Seriously, though. "That's wrong." "Why?" "Look it up yourself, just know that you're wrong and I'm right. I don't care if you know why." Sounds EXTREMELY hostile.


I really don't follow.


He didn't claim you were wrong.
Further, claims made without evidence, as yours were, do not require evidence.
The burden is not on him, because you made the original claim. You can't say you're right, and then demand evidence when someone says you're wrong. The fact that you "may not be" doesnt' mean anything. He could be right, in the same way.
I cannot assert things without evidence, and then get upset at people who deny what I say without evidence.  That's just silly.

I'm asking if it would be okay for me to say "If you really don't understand why saying 'I have to assume you're an asshole' is insulting, I have to assume you're an asshole".


Ok, show me where i told you that you were wrong, before today's post that included thorough evidence proving you 1000% wrong.

You can't, because as multiple people who were there have been saying, I DIDNT.

Further, now that i gave you proof i want your admission that you are, in fact, WRONG.


I didn't make any claims. I said "I don't think they have empathy." That's not a claim. That's my assertion based on what I know. If he's going to claim it's incorrect, he either needs to back that up or not bother. Because he's the one challenging my opinion.

That is a very confusing line of thinking there, though. If I don't assume that you assume that I assume? ...what?


>"... just know that you're wrong and I'm right. I don't care if you know why."
That's not a fair characterization of LP's posts.  He was trying to get you to look into this matter on your own.  "If you give a man fish, you'll feed him for a day.  If you teach how to fish, he'll fish for a lifetime."


And he never even said that they do have empathy, then.
If we're going to play that game, you're complaining about something LP never said, anyway.
In fact, you were the one who pulled the assertion from LP's post. You were the one who demanded evidence that they didn't have empathy, despite LP not saying anything about empathy.

>. If I don't assume that you assume that I assume? ...what?
That's not it at all.

Basically, what I am asking is, would it be okay for me to assume, and vocalize such, that you are an asshole because you don't seem to understand why you were banned?
Would it be alright for me to say "I'll have to assume you're an asshole", based on this situation, here?


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Rather remarkably, I went through the thread, and LP never once said "Empathy", at all.


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Oh no, Chain, he's right.

I'm a complete and total asshole.  As it was HIS assertion then either he believed i wasnt and was willfully lying about me, or, he really should not be surprised that im now behaving in my own natural state of assholeness.

He was at fault the other day, and he deserved his punishment.  I didn't do it to him, HE DID IT.

I dont know why he cant man up and own his behavior, because only a complete dumbass thinks its my fault that he attacked me like he did, and is still doing.

I am under attack.  I brought none of this on myself, well, except for being stupid enough to try to interact with a hateful mean person.  I own that.  That's my fault.

But he's 1000% factually wrong here and pursues this unjust war of aggression on me and when we are both permabanned for the good of the site, it will be him who is responsible for his ban, and me who is responsible for mine.

If thats what he wants, then so be it.


>>>/pony/921496 is where you refuted my opinion that they don't have empathy. You used the word "pessimism" to describe it, implying an incorrect believe. I invited you to explain how I was wrong in >>>/pony/921498

I've already served my time for that thread. You don't get to pressure me into talking about it more.

Yeah, no. You can't tell someone they are wrong and then give them homework. That is EXACTLY what I described in >>3474. If your'e going to say someone's wrong, then you better be able to back that up, not tell them to prove themselves wrong. What incentive do I have to prove myself wrong? I dont' think I'm wrong.


I gave him that fish repeatedly in the past and he refused to listen.

Ask him, did he read any of the links i supplied him today.

Oh wait i already know.  He hasn't.  He wants to be ignorant.  He cant say hateful shit about reptiles if he actually read the first paragraph of any of those three sources i sent him, and that would deprive him of hate.  He wants to hate.


Because I said it and lp refuted it.


That's not a refutation.
That's a critique of 'doubting' things without looking in to them.
It doesn't say you're wrong. It's saying it's not useful.
Which'd be true, too.

>I've already served my time for that thread. You don't get to pressure me into talking about it more.
Then don't.
It'll just happen again, when you inevitably end up in a fight based on your assumptions of other people.
If you're fine with that, by all means, continue as you are.

>You can't tell someone they are wrong and then give them homework.
Never said you were wrong.
Moreover, again, you do not have to back up refutations made without evidence, even if that was the case.


It doesnt say that at all.  Other people read that including Moony and none of them agree with you.


>What incentive do I have to prove myself wrong?
Pursuit of knowledge.

>I dont' think I'm wrong.
Well you weren't 100% absolutely certain that you were right either.  (Or if you were, then that's a serious problem in its own right.)


> hateful shit about reptiles
You act as if I actually hurt any reptile's feelings by joking around with Noonim.


Except that he didn't.

I didn't realize how completely out of it this whole nonsense was, until I went back to see what LP said.
He literally said nothing.
He never said you were wrong, he never made claims about anything.
He said some pseudo-intellectual nonsense, sure, but, it wasn't a refutation, it wasn't a claim. It was just him saying some extra guff that didn't really change anything as far as the discussion went.


I'm not going to do someone else's work just to make a fool of me. That's dumb. If someone wants to say I'm wrong, they damn
sure better back it up.

I know I can't call them an asshole (or say anything that could remotely be construed as calling them an asshole) for not doing it, and I served my time for that. But it doesn't change my opinion that that is something they should do and not doing so is rude.

YOu can't argue he wasn't saying I was wrong when he spent most of today's thread trying to prove I was wrong. The very thing I asked him to do last time and he refused.


I didnt receive a warning for that post, stupid.

Moony didn't WARN anyone.

He should have banned us both, and he still should.

Staff, why let this continue?  Why not simply end this.  Take out the trash.  We deserve it.  You the staff dont deserve this.  The community doesnt deserve this.  REPTILES dont deserve this.

Just end it, this all goes away nice and clean.


Why are you trying to play the victim?


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I absolutely can because he LITERALLY DIDN'T.
Future actions do not negate past actions.
Especially when you have a guy [yourself] constantly nagging him about an argument he never fucking made, demanding proof when no claim was even given.

Dude, you literally made this entire argument out of nothing.
It's made up,.
It didn't exist.
You pulled it out of thin air, from some words you decided to magically interpret in your own special way.
This'd be hilarious if it wasn't such an annoying nightmare.


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>I'm not going to do someone else's work
LP already knew about lizard brains.  You were the one who was ignorant.  You are the one ultimately responsible for educating yourself.


>LP already knew about lizard brains.

Then he should have shared that knowledge. If someone doesn't know about pokemon, I don't tell them to do their own research. I share what I know.


It's also in the past, and I've already been punished for it. You guys are the ones who brought it up. And in doing so, you have inadvertently distracted from the real purpose of this thread.


Why does he have an obligation to share information to someone forcing a position on him? Forcing him to defend a claim he never made?


>Then he should have shared that knowledge.
LP says that he did, repeatedly in the past.



Wait a minute, i dont believe you can't read.  You just misrepresented my words "The same thing I always do" as "the same as you"

Lying about words that are right in front of everyone only makes you look like a liar.

Therefore it is a true statement to say you are a liar.


By the gods somebody kill me, kill me now.  Jesus fucking christ why am i even alive.


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Yeah, we brought it up because you don't understand why you were in the wrong, mate.

Because, yet again, you march head-first into trouble, while completely ignoring why you got in trouble in the first place.
Hell, the whole argument we were just having a moment ago, as to whether it'd be okay to say you're going to "assume" someone's an asshole?
That's the same type of thing you ended up in trouble, when you did that stuff to me.

Maybe I should just stop bothering, honestly. Feels like you'll never bother to empathize with others, in that regard. Easier for you to just keep repeating that they're wrong, and ignore any arguments made.


Sorry, I don't have time to look through this right now. I'm just gonna lock this and maybe another mod can issue a ruling, or I'll come back and figure it out myself tomorrow morning.


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I cannot begin to express how frustrating it is to see this same little group of posters back here on Canterlot again, fighting over semantic issues.

It is frustrating that only Noonim appears to have an interest in de-escalating the situation, and even then, only early on.

It is frustrating that LP has come in here with a massively angry, emotionally charged rant.

It it frustrating that we're back here at square one, again.

Any other site would wash their hands of this madness, and issue a carpet ban. i fell asleep with my phone out dealing with this, woke up dealing with this, dealt with this on the train to work, and now at work, am still dealing with this.

None of the things discussed in that thread should have erupted in such a huge fight.

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