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 No.1913

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Continued, from /pony/ sticky.

 No.1915

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First

Also here to lurk and discuss things, not just shit post.

I'm actually pretty curious on peoples stances of the lolicon stuff, since that's not something that can be easily discussed IRL without causing aa massive fight.

 No.1917

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>>1915
Personally, I don't kink shame. People don't choose their fetishes, they just develop over time. So you can't really hate someone for what fetishes they develop anymore than you can hate them for the color of their skin.

That being said, some fetishes are more harmful than others, and just because you HAVE a fetish doesn't mean you should act on it if it's going to hurt someone else. So my stance on things like this are generally: Don't hate someone for what they get off to, however if someone hurts another person in order to satisfy their fetish, they are in the wrong for doing so.

 No.1918

>>1915
>I'm actually pretty curious on peoples stances of the lolicon stuff, since that's not something that can be easily discussed IRL without causing aa massive fight.

Well mine is easily the most radical stance. And I'm collected enough to talk about it now, so why not.

You want my unadulterated stance? All sexuality is wonderful and beautiful, even pedophilia, on the (extremely important) condition that everything is consensual. Like I understand that there are some tricky problems with pedophilia, that by definition there can't be consent in that sort of sex, but there are still ways by which the pedophile can exercise their sexuality without hurting anyone (i.e. Lolicon, of the non photographic type). And I refuse to shame them for having those thoughts and feelings. I refuse to think of their 2d/animated porn as 'icky'. I would go as far as to say I refuse to ask them to keep it to the shadows too. I'd want to encourage them to be open about it and for them to be supported and loved for it.

And I can't really justify that stance without talking about myself, because my history really explains why I got to this position.

I'm sure everyone has a sad story. And mine is not nearly the saddest. I wasn't raped or molested or abused. I didn't have a creepy uncle who hurt me. In fact I really generally only had supportive people around me. But, I grew up in a less understanding time with a sexuality that is still practical unheard of. Demisexual. The word probably didn't even exist in the 90s. Back then, all I knew was that there was straight and gay. And God forbid if you were gay, because that was literally the definition of bad. No really, when something is bad, we'd call it "gay". That's so gay! I already had the self esteem of a lump of dirt as a kid, and didn't understand my own sexuality but I knew I was different. And if I wasn't straight I must have been gay. And gay was the definition of bad! And to fit in with my friend group, I had to say it too, "that's gay".

Everything that was bad, was me. And I had to reaffirm that daily to my friends to fit in.

I had no role models who were gay that I could say "oh but he is gay and isn't bad!". So I just kept absorbing more and more hated for myself and my sexuality. And I started to do terrible things to myself, because I thought I was the most loathsome thing with no possible way of obtaining value as a human. Well, almost no way to obtain value. There were terrible ways in which I felt I could reach the point that my life was valuable. These things I did I'm not gonna repeat here (lol, it'd break site rules to do so), but they were abominable. This self harm continued, unending, in some form or another literally up until the point I started posting with a name, like weeks ago. I was doing things trying to hurt myself, and destroy myself, and ruin myself, for decades.

And, nobody even abused me! Talking to a friend that helped me get out of that hole, we landed on calling it cultural indoctrination. That just the culture around me at the time just convinced a young boy that it was his duty in life to destroy himself, that it was the right thing to do. And I did a pretty good job. I'm trying to heal now, but I completely burned out every trace of self esteem, every last bit of confidence, fucking everything that makes a person a human and not just a machine. I have almost no friends, I put no effort into caring for my body, I'm very distant from my family. And my perception of reality had been so incredibly warped and twisted, just to give you an example, I was trying to work myself up to cutting. I guess some people cut to ease emotional pain, but I wanted to cut just to cause damage to myself. Because the thing I was telling myself was that this was the role I was born into. That fulfilling my life purpose required me to do that. And I'm convinced I'd have started believing that voice, soon, maybe in the next few months if I hadn't been serendipitously knocked off that destructive path.

And all of this craziness, stuff I did to myself, stuff nobody here could even have imagined I was doing to myself just months ago, that all started with the idea that my sexuality was a bad thing almost 20 years ago. So, that is why I take the stance that I do. Because I'm not gonna pass on what happened to myself to anyone else.

 No.1919

>>1918
Oh, and I'm not looking for sympathy, or compassion, or love, or any of that in telling this story. Literally the only reason I put this shit down is that I care about no cause more than this, and maybe telling this story to people might change their mind on their stance. That's it.

 No.1920

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>>1918
proud of you, dude

 No.1922

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>>1917
>>1918
Hmm.

I find myself in agreement. I guess then the question circles back around to if things such as light lolicon (and by light, I'm thinking of underage looking girls/boys, art, in suggestive clothing or poses, but not outright being sexual, just suggestive) should be allowed on this site, if we try to go the route of fairness.

I do share Moonies fear of it potentially getting the site into trouble, especially if it is something that can still be argued as illegal incourt on smaller cases.

As muchas I wouldn't mind trying to be tolerant of things like that, and possibly even helping some people stray away from darker paths if they felt like they had a safe place to go, I don't want to see us get shut down.

>>1919
Still, it's very difficult to open up like that in public, and I share Roses sentiments. I have really ever opened up to a small group of people about my darker stuff, even though I've shared a good chunk of it here. It's very, very difficult.

 No.1924

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>>1922
Problem is the legal thing. If it weren't that, I don't suppose it would be as much of an issue, but that in particular is very touchy ground and it's best not to play with fire.

That's less about fairness and more just about not wanting to get the site shut down.

 No.1925

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>>1918  I'm sorry you went through that, and I hope you understand that I wasn't trying to attack you personally for what you were saying.  I feel that I can relate with much of what you've said here I literally had a very close family member tell me that people with one of my fetishes should be killed/euthanized, not realizing I had the fetish they were talking about, and I probably agree with you on at least the vast majority of your positions on the issue.  My stance on sexuality has evolved much over the past three decades, and even now it is still evolving.

 No.1926

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>>1918
I've more or less the same notion as this. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't think it should be prevented.

Though, I mean, I might shit on it a bit, because of my own standards. But, that's to do with personal ideals and measurements of quality, not any actual principles being violated by the content, so, I don't regard people as "evil" or anything along that lines. Just simply "wrong" in the sense that they like Call of Duty while I like Halo.

 No.1927

>>1922
I mean, honestly, I don't see that much a problem with it. But, then, I've grown used to the sort of thing thanks to anime. It's a bit of a pain, 80% of shows have some loli bait.
Remove anything that might get us in trouble, though.
That's just site security, at that point. Anyone wants to complain about fairness there, they can take it up with the feds.

 No.1929

>>1920
<3

>>1922
Like yeah, I know we can't have anything that would get the site in trouble. Though, I don't know if it matters anyway. It appears that we have some like minded individuals here that might be on board, but I don't know if the users at large want to bring loli back. Also, I don't know if there is demand for it to be actually posted anyway. I dunno, there was one anon who was posting cute children and he stopped after the whole anti sexualization of children thread happened a couple months back. If that anon wants to speak up, and it was important to them, I might press to see if we can do something for them. Otherwise, this is really just kinda an academic exercise. I think Moony has had enough stress already on this issue without me demanding we bring children in skimpy clothes back, lol. I'm just, kinda happy that a few people here are able to see things the way I have, to a degree. It's, I dunno, a pleasant feeling, like I'm not a crazy person for trying to care for and protect societies most reviled pariahs.

>>1925
Lol, no, I honestly panicked and fell apart because I was expecting to be hated and I was prepared for that, but it didn't come. Like, there was conflict but people were being understanding, people were not attacking me for that position at all. And I didn't know what the fuck was happening, like were people just messing with me? Silently judging me? The tension, waiting for someone to just tear into me, when I guess it never actually was going to come, just crippled me momentarily. I've just gotten so much hate before, every time I tried to do this in the past, that I thought it was the only way that topic could happen. That is I present a logical argument, then people will ignore it and just follow their incredibly strong feelings, and crucify me. It's been like clockwork. So much so when it didn't go down like I thought it was supposed to, I just freaked out a little. That's, kinda funny if you think about it. Just completely failing apart in the face of love and understanding, lol.

So yeah, I guess it was your fault boat, for not hating me as you were supposed to! thanks, for that.

And I'm sorry you had to go through that, it had to be hard. I just wish people would more often stop and think about things. That there are real people at stake here. Good and kind people sometimes, that don't deserve what society so easily dumps on them. It's genuinely so sad to me that some many people are going through this same thing, the same bullshit thing, and it's just so incredibly unnecessary. That we are hurting so many people needlessly. I just, want that cycle to end, so much.

>>1926
Lol, they just don't understand the superiority of cutie lizard babes!

 No.1930

>>1929  No, that makes sense, and I'm sure you've gotten much the same response that I have when I've discussed it with people.  I'll be honest, I was initially very much against lolis (back when it was first discussed and banned), but now having considered the position, I can see where I should at least tolerate it as much as I tolerate anything else.
>hugs

 No.1931

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>>1922
>I do share Moonies fear of it potentially getting the site into trouble, especially if it is something that can still be argued as illegal incourt on smaller cases.
Only pornographic lolicon artwork is illegal (and only if it lacks "serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" (Miller "obscenity" test prong), see >>>/arch/3424).  And porn isn't allowed on the site in any case.  
(Just to be clear: by "loli" or "lolicon", I refer only to 2D depictions of fictional characters.  No real children.)

>>1915
>I'm actually pretty curious on peoples stances of the lolicon stuff
Personally I'd be fine with vaguely suggestive/risque loli stuff.  But I know that many people are repulsed by it, so I think it's probably best to disallow it (unless perhaps we adopt a multi-tiered Prude Mode system so that people can avoid it -- and even then I think it would be a bit iffy).

>>1918
Oh man, that's horrible what you experienced, Thorax.  :-(
And I agree with you: nobody should be made to feel ashamed or that they're a bad person simply on account of their sexuality.

 No.1932

But people who are sexually attracted to    okra    shouldn't be allowed to post images of that disgusting fetish 😛

(This is joke post, just in case that wasn't clear.)

 No.1933

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>>1932
Do you think

This is a mother-fucking game, anon?

>reported

 No.1934

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 No.1935

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Is the Political Drama rule still part of the new rules?

 No.1936

>>1935
>>1935
I believe so

 No.1970

I'd just like to add that I don't really feel comfortable reporting any regular user due to the harsh minimum ban length in >>>/rules/3 for 4th ban and beyond.

 No.1972

>>1970
I understand the concern, but to put it into perspective, the last ban we issued to a regular user was 26 weeks ago. And that one came after a billion warnings before hand.

I think I'd prefer it if we were more liberal with bans but made them less punitive, but that's just me. The current philosophy on bans is that they are an extreme measure only reserved for extreme cases, so from that perspective I can see how this system of escalating bans is much less harsh than it appears on the surface.

 No.2033

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>>1972
But I received a small ban just a few weeks ago.  It hurt my feelings.

I wonder if it counts as my ban #1 (even tho it was less than 2 hours) and if I'd be on to automatic ban #2 next time.

 No.2034

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>>2033
our policy with the new rules is tabula rasa: if it was a ban received before the new rules, you're back to 0.

 No.2057

>>2033
Oh, you know you're right. Our stupid ban list deletes the history of the ban after it expires and has been viewed by the user. I forgot about that, I need to fix that cuz it doesn't really make sense for a board as small as ours, we can keep the ban history just fine. So I guess, scratch the 26 week thing. But still, bans aren't used to often.

 No.2091

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>>2034
Not to make trouble, [proceeds to make trouble] then why doesn't the clean slate apply to Manley's political ban?

 No.2092

>>2091
I think you're confused.  What Moony said is that the ban count starts at zero for the purposes of the ban escalation table.  I dont think Manley's politics ban counts toward the count for the escalation table.


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